Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
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earth, what about you unicorn?
you really are a bad example of a Christian. Keep your snooty comments to yourself
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 12, 2004 at 11:02 AM
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Uni
The basic idea is this, if God is all-powerful and all-loving, no one will go to hell, all we go to Heaven. If God allows anyone to go to Hell then he either is not all-powerful or not all-loving. The 'not forcing himself on you' thing is a cheap way out. It does not make any sense then to the rules presented in the Bible where he does nothing but force himself on you. By this logic it is not rape for a guy to hold a gun on a women and say 'Have sex with me or I will shoot you, I don't wish to force myself on you.'
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 12, 2004 at 10:10 AM
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Kooka
that's not what I'm saying at all. We are going to be spiritual beings.
I can see where this is heading, yet again, so I'm heading out.
posted by
PastorB
on November 12, 2004 at 10:07 AM
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:::confused::: Which question was that in reference to?
And if that's the case, why did he give us the ability to learn, think, feel, and know? I'm not trying to start a fight, I just feel like debating today (haven't done it in a while). ;-)
posted by
roofpig
on November 12, 2004 at 10:06 AM
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So uni
You are saying we will be mindless zombies in heaven? No thank you.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 12, 2004 at 10:05 AM
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roof
My comment to Kooka in his post; "The Horrors of Heaven"
I'm not sure, but I think part of your problem
is that you are viewing heaven in the incorrect perspective. When those who are going to heaven go there, we won't be in our "human form", rather spirit form. So of course we won't have need for "human" things. No pain; physically, mentally or emotionally. No ego. No physical things. It's hard to comprehend "spiritual" things with the "natural" mind. I think that's why God's word tells us not to lean on our own understanding.
posted by
PastorB
on November 12, 2004 at 10:02 AM
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But uni, that's still being neutral.
And which post am I looking in?
posted by
roofpig
on November 12, 2004 at 9:59 AM
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roof
you may want to look at the comment I just left in Kooka's other post here about that.
God is a gentleman and won't force Himself on anyone, but rather let us exercise our free will that He gave us.
posted by
PastorB
on November 12, 2004 at 9:56 AM
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uni
Roofpig did a fine job of of saying what I most likely would have said.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 12, 2004 at 9:54 AM
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uni, not that I'm agreeing with anyone, but how is that warped? The God that is preached by yourself and others is a God of pure love, right? If God leaves us to make the decision of whether or not to be damned to hell, that makes him neutral (going back to another of Kooka's posts), not loving.
By the way, if anyone can explain this I'll be happy to listen - those of Jewish faith do not believe in hell. So did hell just appear when Jesus did? Or was God neglectful in the information he gave his "chosen people" all those eons ago? I'm truly curious as no one has ever actually straight-up answered this for me.
posted by
roofpig
on November 12, 2004 at 9:50 AM
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Kooka
I'm really sorry that you have such a warped concept of God. All I can do is to continue to pray for you.
posted by
PastorB
on November 12, 2004 at 9:45 AM
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uni
If God really loved us that much then there would be no doubt that all would go to Heaven no matter what. There would be no concept of Hell at all. God just would not allow for such an idea that would show him to be a uncaring father to be spread. At some point he either is not all-power or is not all-loving. If there is the possibility of hell then, God can not be those two things. Unless you feel a loving father shows great love by abusing his children, physically, mentally and emotionally.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 12, 2004 at 8:44 AM
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Jackie, are you serious?
Which planet would that be? Moreover, in the nicest way possible, I would ask which planet you are on?
posted by
PastorB
on November 12, 2004 at 8:34 AM
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I believe heaven is a planet
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 12, 2004 at 1:47 AM
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I'll point back to my comment
God gave us free will. He's not "deciding", we have the choice to chose eternal life by accepting Jesus, or hell by not chosing Jesus.
God loves us beyond any measure we can comprehend, more than you love your children or than I love mine. That's why He was willing to give His Son's life for us.
posted by
PastorB
on November 11, 2004 at 9:30 PM
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Uni
I'll point back to my step-father's comment-
"But it is saying that God either can't or is unwilling to save us from that fate."
God deciding that some are not going to get into heaven goes against the idea of God doing that because he is a loving father. I know I do not care how much my boys ever do to me. Even if they tell me time and time again they hate me and want nothing to do with me, I will love them and do all I can to make sure they are given the best in life. Even if they do not believe in me, i would make sure they did not suffer for all eternity if it was with-in my power to do so.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 11, 2004 at 9:09 PM
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well, here's another comment you can
relay to him. God is not "unwilling" to save us from that fate, why on earth do you think He GAVE HIS SONS LIFE? He gave us the options, the free will to chose which direction we want to go. Our fate lies in our own hands based upon whether we accept Jesus as Savior. And your question as to why God wants us to be in heaven-Doesn't any loving Father want their children to be with them? God is the Father of every Christian, so naturally He wants us to be with Him, it's called Agape Love.
posted by
PastorB
on November 11, 2004 at 8:40 PM
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kooka's step-father
I didn't realize you wanted to know why god wants us in heaven. That's easy too. In the spectrum of size, from the smallest particle to the Hubble distance, we humans are in the right position to provide the necessary filter of good and evil. The sinners among us catch the evil like krill on baleen, while the filtered universe wheels on without it or them. God is able to occupy the space he wants devoid of the crap he abhors, knowing that we will be tempted to partake of what we could live forever without. For our part, there is forgiveness, if there is enough of us left to forgive; for you see, we cannot come face to face with our creator until we have faces.
posted by
pappy
on November 11, 2004 at 5:00 PM
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My Step-father's replies to the comment in general
Sicen this was his question, I sent him the comments and this is his reply:
"The argument that Heaven is good because it is better than being tortured beyond all understanding forever and ever without hope of parole is compelling. But it is saying that God either can't or is unwilling to save us from that fate.
And I haven't seen a description of an everlasting heaven that was more attractive than letting us die put forth by a prosthelizer.
I didn't see an argument below about what interest God has in having us in Heaven though."
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 11, 2004 at 4:08 PM
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westwend
obviously, I have never been there. I form my opinion on heaven by what scripture says, and by what my faith tells me.
Do you know what hell is really like?
Do you know what a million dollars in your hand would feel like? No. But that doesn't make it any less real.
posted by
PastorB
on November 11, 2004 at 9:44 AM
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Did God really create Heaven? Or is God Heaven itself? Oooo...
posted by
roofpig
on November 11, 2004 at 9:28 AM
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correction to below
the question should be
do you know, unicorn, what Heaven is really like?
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 11, 2004 at 9:18 AM
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like god created the heavens and the earth
i know what what exactly is heaven like?
odd right now we're gettin some limmited Christian views -- Kooka -- you ought to let this hold on until you get a few others on it like AMDG and Friar Tuck.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 11, 2004 at 9:17 AM
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jamryn
that's a precious thought, but we don't "make" heaven, God did.
posted by
PastorB
on November 11, 2004 at 8:53 AM
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Heaven ? Like life is what you make ....to be.
I remember what the minister said at my second husbands funeral. He said that Lee was happely rumminging through boxes of radio tubes and other junk at an auction. Finding just the right piece to fix something. I figure by this time ( 20 years later ) Lee has all of heaven wired for sound and is the chief engineer in getting things repaired. For him there is an auction, grarage sale or something every day and of course all the good stuff has been left on top just for him. When I arive ( years in the future) our little corner of heaven will still be decorated in " EARLY ANTIQUE" That means all garage sale or auction stuff.
posted by
jamryn
on November 11, 2004 at 7:12 AM
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interesting
Isaiah 65:17 says that God will create new heavens and a new earth, the former things shall not be remembered or come to mind. (I don't have that verse word for word as it is from memory, rather than quoting straight from the Bible). To me, that sounds like those that are in heaven will have no need of any of the things we are familiar with on this earth. After all, heaven will be paradise, so I can't forsee us having earthly "chores" to concern ourselves with. There will be no marriage, death, flesh, imperishable, sorrow, pain, night/day, wicked people or an end to it. But I've never concerned myself too much with what it will be like, only the fact that I'll be there as opposed to being in an eternal fire. As far as who else will be there, I have no clue other than the fact that the ones who have been born again and accepted Jesus as their personal Savior will be-so that could be any denomination, God doesn't look at what your "religious" affiliation is, He sees the heart.
posted by
PastorB
on November 11, 2004 at 7:05 AM
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I think before I start contemplating heaven, I need to contemplate the idea of having a soul. I've heard arguments for both sides. I'd like to believe that, yes, I do have a soul, but then the questions start popping up. That's not to say that I DON'T believe I have a soul; however, like everything else, I do question and ponder it.
posted by
roofpig
on November 11, 2004 at 6:53 AM
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I have always believed
that our time spent on Earth is about life lessons. If we do not learn these lessons, then we come back and do it again until we get it right. For instance, I have never had a father. I believe in a past life that I probably did not appreciate the father that I had, so in this life I must do without. I guess this all goes with the belief in reincarnation. Many people do not believe in it. I happen to believe.
posted by
Sherri_G
on November 11, 2004 at 6:45 AM
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shoot
i can't add anything to what these guys have said
I will note, however, that those who believe in the traditional heaven aren't signing on yet -- particularly anyone that wants to explain the "beatific vision" and why only Catholics go to Heaven.
Or only certain Christians otherwise -- excluding Catholics and Episcopalians and Orthodox and probably Methodists and Presbyterians and Disciples of Christ. That's basically what some of them have said (in essence) in their posts and comments.
Of course thst' the thing isn't it? Like Dante, they consign everyone to Hell that disagrees with them.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 11, 2004 at 6:42 AM
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Contemplating Heaven
would be a worthwhile activity for anyone. If we think of where we'd like to go and what we'd like to do once this physical body gives out, then live in such a way so that we employ our ideals in this physical existence, wouldn't that be creating "heaven on earth?" For those who love life, embrace the planet and all its beauty and wonder, acknowledge the delight of all the senses we possess--what else would you add to your heaven? It doesn't have to be the "heaven" of christianity--that is just another idea-- Peace, Freerain
posted by
freerain
on November 10, 2004 at 9:30 PM
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it doesn't really matter does it
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 10, 2004 at 8:37 PM
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kooka
Easy one. Eternal life has already begun but only some people know it. If I told you that you were going to live forever (wait, I just did) how would you know if it were true? You would have to wait until everybody else thought you were dead, then you might say, "Oh shit, why didn"t I at least think about it. What would it have hurt?" The cool thing is, you have the right, because of the law of liberty, to dream up any kind of heaven you want and if you have the power to pull it off (big if) it will be yours.
posted by
pappy
on November 10, 2004 at 8:30 PM
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