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kooka
Thanks for your timely response. My question was not about the the ability to understand the concept, for the concept and its understanding are two ends of the same stick; but more about the origin of that ability. My contention is that it is not from the animal , or lower nature in us. Rather it comes down from the higher realm to which we aspire. There is no need for even the idea of good and evil in the animal kingdom, for there it is all about survival of the coming generations. Only we as humans aspire to a better quality of life that can be measured in non-physical terms. Inner peace, satisfaction with ordinary reality, serenity for its own sake, appreciation of quality; all those things that seem to direct us toward something unknown and even if it is unknowable is still worth looking for because the search itself has value. I think that religion is only one manifestation of this search. Music and art and poetry and literature are also searches. Unfortunately, there seems to be no more good religion than there is good poetry.
posted by
pappy
on November 10, 2004 at 8:14 PM
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pappy
I try to reply to most comments. Some I don't feel need to be replied to. Some days I just do not have time to reply to them all. If you have let comments and I have not replied, then I apologize for that. Most likely there was a reason for it. Most likely I had just gotten a lot of comments left at that point and only had time to reply to a few.
If the concepts themselves are man made, then so is the understanding. For one thing no two people share the exact same set of moral values. We can look at things such as sex and birth control and right to die and such and see that there is a level in which each person decided what things are good and what are evil. The 'do the right thing' attitude is often an important part of making sure the spices itself survives. We are all neutral until motivation comes into play. Once our motivation is something more than survival, when we get to the point where we have desires for things that have nothing to do with survival, then we see good and evil come in to play.
And even in with humans it is survival of the strongest., We less and less rely of just physical strength though (Even if we can go in a bomb a country to hell with little effort) we are more and more using other strengths to survive. Political strength is a big one now. Survival of the fittest has nothing at all to do with if something is good or evil or neutral.
A mother bear who kills a person to defend her cubs is not evil. Yet when man goes and kills off a group of bears because man wants the land for himself, even though there is plenty of land that he could have without having to kill for it, then that killing becomes an evil thing. And even with that there is a level in which we can debate.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 10, 2004 at 7:37 PM
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kooka
I know you don't respond to comments, but if good and evil are constructs of humans, then who made humans capable of understanding the concept. Each other? Does any other animal know? Why should anyone care? If all were neutral then only the strongest would survive, and the one unburdened by that pesky 'do the right thing' attitude would have the advantage, right?
posted by
pappy
on November 10, 2004 at 7:01 PM
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Excellent post, Kooka.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on November 10, 2004 at 11:48 AM
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kooka_lives
now that you put it like that....I understand..............thanks for commenting back..............take care
posted by
_Symphony_
on November 10, 2004 at 8:48 AM
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SYMPHONY
I do not consider it suicide to allow someone who is dying to be allowed to have a release from suffering. That is compassion
If they are perfectly healthy and wish to die just because they no longer wish to deal with the world, that is suicide to me and I do not agree with it. That is all in their mind, and there is a chance that if they really wish to improve they can. It is not the same thing as a man with brain cancer who can only cause more grief and pain for his family by being kept alive. Not to mention his own pain if he is even mildy aware of the trap that his body has become and the pain he is causeing his family. If he is not aware, then he is dead already. If he is aware then it would be inhuman to make him have to live like that.
posted by
kooka_lives
on November 9, 2004 at 4:49 PM
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or you can . . .
(continued)
find a way of exterminating your self.
many types of suicide are messy -- guns, razor blades -- others are not 100% certain of the desired result -- drowning, overdosing, carbon monoxide poisoning.
if you ask someone else to do it and they comply then they can be charged with murder.
if you ask Jack Kevorkian to do it, then he's in trouble too.
so you have to find a way to do it that
1. isn't messy
2. doesn't put others in jeopardy of jail time.
I think I have the perfect solution for myself.
climb a mountain.
Kooka -- or his sister -- or his brother-in-law -- will take me up to the top of a Colorado 14'er and I'll hang out there until I'm either struck by lightning or (best in winter) I die peacefully of hypothermia.
I'll end my life with one of the most beautiful views you could ever imagine.
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 9, 2004 at 3:23 PM
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kooka
I'm in favor of living wills, when it's my time to go nobody else has the right to stop the process for their own reasons.
posted by
pappy
on November 9, 2004 at 3:02 PM
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people have choices
then again no.
some people aren't in control of their lives
this comes from when a kid others controlling their lives and their brains cannot get into the mode of self-control.
then they are adults
really mixed up.
lost
god isn't there.
that's because christians describe to people a false god (not all christians).
they feel hopeless.
young people in particular. life hits the young hardest -- from teen to mid 20's maybe later -- they feel all the slings are arrows that are thrown at them. someone has got to get them through this period without their committing suicide or other drastic action.
but then when you get to a certain point in life -- when you are basically a vegetable.
what happens then?
does your family go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to keep you in that vegetative state? -- do you make certain the hospital ER knows that you do not want to resussitated (sp?) -- no extraordinary measures to keep you alive --
or when you can no longer take care of yourself --- either your kids keep you (Kooka!!!!) -- and they clean up after your incontinence, keep you locked in your room so you don't wander out of the house and get lost somewhere, make sure you are taking all 150 medications at the proper time of day -- waking you up in the middle of the night for your sleeping pill -- clean your clothes and bedding and buy new mattresses whenever the old ones get so soiled and stinky that noone can enter your house for the stink -- and of course you argue with them over every little thing until everybody's blue in the face and its your kids and order YOU around now.
or they can put you in a nursing home where you should last about six months til you die and you have no control over your life and you just might end your days with tubes sticking in every orifice in your body and in orifices you didn't know you had.
or you can (to be continued)
posted by
Xeno-x
on November 9, 2004 at 3:02 PM
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I dont think letting someone die is wrong
if they are in excruciating agony and the death is inevitable anyway. We are talking about very specific circumstances.
posted by
calmcantey75
on November 9, 2004 at 3:01 PM
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so what your basically saying is........
if somebody wants to commit suicide ...just let them?
posted by
_Symphony_
on November 9, 2004 at 2:30 PM
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