Go to Thoughts of the moments
- Add a comment
- Go to THE SPIRIT OF HALLOWEEN
Kooka...
point taken. I misinterpreted part of a comment you wrote, "I know of no one who has gotten hit by a drunk driver (Or even a sober driver for that matter) on Halloween, yet I know of many, many people who have been seriously hurt in their own houses." Sorry for that.
Yes, accidents like this do occur year round. People just need to be extra vigilant that evening, the same way they should be extra vigilant at school start times and finishing times. Kids are kids and sometimes they leap before the look, Halloween or no Halloween.
posted by
theinnkeepersdaughter
on October 28, 2004 at 8:38 AM
| link to this | reply
theinnkeepersdaughter
No child had ever died from a random poisoning of Halloween candy. That is fact. Unicorn is making it up to try and discredit me.
I have never said a child has not been killed by cars on Halloween. That is a different thing that what I am accusing Uni of saying. That kind of thing happens year round though and I will go into that as well in my post today about the whole lies and misinformation about Halloween.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 28, 2004 at 7:11 AM
| link to this | reply
kooka...
whoa. That was inappropriate. And both of you need to take a major time out. This hand slapping is being done in alphabetical order not in order of preference...
kooka, a child has died on Halloween. I know because I waited by the telephone to hear which child in our community it was. A young man in his excitement to cross the road to get to more houses did not notice a car coming and was struck and killed in front his mother and several of his friends. Very tragic.
Unicorn, it is not very nice to mock other people's beliefs whether you agree them or not. HolyGrail merely stated information. No derogatory comment was stated and as far as I can see implied. Samhain is Celtic in origins. I know because that is my ancestry. Please don't call my heritage goofy.
Ok, sorry, now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
posted by
theinnkeepersdaughter
on October 28, 2004 at 6:53 AM
| link to this | reply
Uni
You have a sick mind and would make up a story about a child dying to gain sympathy in an attempt to give credit to your lie.
I have prove you wrong and I have proved you a liar. I am going to write a whole post today that just proves that all the more. You have the power to stop me by providing proof that you are not a liar. You can not do this, so I must assume you are a liar because all that FACTS (I know you do not understand facts, but I use them to prove thing to be true) and the facts clearly point to you being a liar.
Why is it that every single time I have every put a challenge to you to prove something you have not been able to do this? You back down and find really lame excuses as to why it is beneath you to provide proof of what you say.
You have shown me you have no integrity at all and so I must figure that is what the truth of things are. Anyone who listens to you is listening to lies as far as I can figure. I hope people have more sense that to take a word of what you say to be truth.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 28, 2004 at 6:38 AM
| link to this | reply
I certainly have not lied-why would I make up a child dying??
I know it would give you nothing but pleasure to think that you are royally pissing me off right now, sorry kook, you are laughable. I never said that holygrail was stupid, so refrain from putting words in my mouth, and aren't you the pot calling the kettle black? If it bothers you so much, prove me wrong, prove me a liar, I have nothing to prove to you. I will not warp the death of a friend of mines child to play this foolish game with you, that is beyond drawing the line.
You can post as many posts as you wish trying to discredit or offend me, I won't be giving you the priviledge of any further 'clicks' or stupid conversations with you, you are not worth the effort.
posted by
PastorB
on October 27, 2004 at 10:13 PM
| link to this | reply
Halloween is the best
I think we all have some of our best memories from this holiday.
posted by
calmcantey75
on October 27, 2004 at 10:01 PM
| link to this | reply
Uni
You have yet to prove to me that you are not a liar. You have lied, you have defended the lies of others and you seem to avoid facts.
It was uncalled for that you were saying that what you thought to be HolGrail's beliefs were stupid. Even thouigh she did not say she believed in what you called 'goofy'. You still implied that her beleifs were stupid.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 27, 2004 at 10:00 PM
| link to this | reply
un called for!!
you're a riot! You can flat out call me a liar, but I say that to buy into aiding the dead in their journey is goofy and it's uncalled for???You are one lost soul.
posted by
PastorB
on October 27, 2004 at 9:55 PM
| link to this | reply
HolyGrail
Is a she not he, I am sorry for my mistake.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 27, 2004 at 9:47 PM
| link to this | reply
uni
That was uncalled for. Holygrail was just stating fact about the origins of Halloween. He never said he believed in it, just that it is what was believed in at the time. And he expressed his opinions about what he thought of the beliefs.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 27, 2004 at 9:45 PM
| link to this | reply
holygrail
aid the dead in their journey? That's so goofy. You can't honestly say you buy into that load of manure? If you do, I have a horse and can provide you with the real thing.
posted by
PastorB
on October 27, 2004 at 9:29 PM
| link to this | reply
I couldn't agree more. The attitude that Halloween is "evil" gives me extreme tired head. Even in its Celtic beginnings, a day to honor the souls of those who had died during the year and to aid them on their journey, it was not evil. It obviously had nothing to do with the Devil, because the Celtics were Pagans. Of course, many Christians see any belief or religion different from their own as "satanic," so I guess there's no use in even trying to explain. I think someone said it's evil if you make it so. I would certainly not make it anything but innocent fun for my kids (if I had them...)
posted by
Holy_Grail
on October 27, 2004 at 7:29 PM
| link to this | reply
ha ha ha west!
I was going to say 'bless you' with all the eschew's going on! Is that your new word for the day west? But that was a very interesting comment you made there-you should have made it a post, then I woulnd't have to keep coming over here to you know who's place. Can I ask you west, after your involvment with 'religion', what made you chose to eschew it? I'm being 100% serious; was it the doctrine, the people, what?
And BTW for roof and someone else Jackie o I think, I wrote a new blog addressing your guestions.
posted by
PastorB
on October 27, 2004 at 2:53 PM
| link to this | reply
Lol, westwend....
and I hope you all have a great time at the concert. Little jedi's, that is so cute. (Big jedi's too, Kooka
)
posted by
theinnkeepersdaughter
on October 27, 2004 at 2:43 PM
| link to this | reply
I am right now in my Jedi Costume, waiting for my parents to show up to take me and my son to the Halloween concert. It just feels great to have the costume on. My son and I have already had a lightsaber duel and will most likely have a few more as the night goes on. I love this time of year.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 27, 2004 at 2:34 PM
| link to this | reply
innkeepersdaughter
GESUNDHEIT
and that's a pagan wish too, to keep evil spirits from coming in while you've sneezed and your mouth is open
posted by
Xeno-x
on October 27, 2004 at 2:32 PM
| link to this | reply
eschew?
I told you guys that I need to buy a dictionary...
posted by
theinnkeepersdaughter
on October 27, 2004 at 2:28 PM
| link to this | reply
ok I wasn't going to say much and there are reasons I wasn't going to
I grew up with Halloween and Christmas and such and enjoyed them. They were ok times -- warm times -- family times -- sharing with the neighbors times.
Then I "converted" to Radio Church of God, to be Worldwide Church of God, run by Herbert W. Armstrong and his son, Garner Ted Armstrong, who together were the most vocal proponents of returning to the Old Testament days and laws, demonstrating their continuing efficacy in Christian times.
They showed that Christian holidays such as Christmas and Easter and Valentine's Day and Hallowe'en were not observances of original believers -- that these believers observed Jewish days (quartodecimani controversy -- where those adhering to such days were summarily dispatched) until about 200 years after Yeshua lived.
They made the connection of Hallowe'en with the Celtic Samhain, eschewing the day as pagan and full of devils. Now of course, I could understand this, since the Church embraced pagan holidays as a means of assimilating the different religions outside of it (check out local practices in Central and South America) and growing (then dissuading those who disagreed with Church doctrine via the Inquisition), itself eschewing the original holidays, calling them "Jewish" and anathema.
So for the first few years of Kooka's sistger's life, she did not celebrate these holidays. But by the time Kooka came around, I had myself eschewed WWCG, seeing in it certain doctrinal statements that clashed with certain scriptures I had read.
So Kooka grew up with Halloween and Christmas and such. Got a good cut on a table at a Halloween party, dressed as Superman, I think, running after the big green monster that was his Dad.
It is accepted by all except the very "faithful" that these days do have their roots in traditions outside the original Christian. So why accept them? Why observe?
I tell you why I do. Because the celebration as it is today really is innocent, bereft of all original meaning of souls rising and devils and demons flitting about (if you can't see or feel it, is it real?). It is a time to get out and meet neighbors whom you don't meet enough really and become acquainted with them through the costumes they wear and the characters they take on. I don't take kindly to those parents who drive their kids miles and miles to various and sundry different neighborhoods far from home to get all the booty they can.
In Romans, Paul talks about one man deeming one day as more important than others and another as deming all days as equal, yet saying that both do it "in faith", because it it "to the Lord" -- In Hebrews, I understand the passage where the writer is talking about "Today" as meaning this very moment -- each moment has now become a sacred Sabbath where we are in the "Rest", thus the past observances, though helping to point the way to a certain spirituality above the mundane, are, like the Law, just to help the believer who is "immature" to get to "faith" for the mature -- where the within and the moment are the Kingdom of Heaven and the sacred observance.
We all, then, can eschew deeming one day as more important than another and other days as those to be shunned because we are mature enough so to do.
posted by
Xeno-x
on October 27, 2004 at 2:17 PM
| link to this | reply
jackie o
Go here for some facts
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/hallowee.htm
Mass posioning of candys is an urban legend and nothing more.
I do check through their stuff, but I am not really worried about it.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 27, 2004 at 2:17 PM
| link to this | reply
That's why the ritual at our house is...
load the kids up with treats of their own to take with them trick or treating and then they don't dip into their bags when they are out. Husband and I check everything thoroughly before the kids are allowed anything (besides lets us get first crack at the primo stuff
).
posted by
theinnkeepersdaughter
on October 27, 2004 at 1:53 PM
| link to this | reply
Do you ever worry about wackjobs giving
your kids poisoned treats.
posted by
calmcantey75
on October 27, 2004 at 1:39 PM
| link to this | reply
suomynona
You poor thing. I feel for you. I hope your Halloween is much better this year. It sounds lke it should it be.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 27, 2004 at 1:26 PM
| link to this | reply
Wow...
Talk about debate.
I didn't realize the gift giving spirit associated with Christmas was a bad thing. I think it's all in how you do it whether it's bad for your children.
And, like Roofpig, I'd like to know what is sinful or evil about Halloween?
posted by
RachelAnna
on October 27, 2004 at 1:24 PM
| link to this | reply
Uni
Acturally I beleive there to be lot more about Christmas, but the only real part that is focued on the kids seem to be the gift giving.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 27, 2004 at 1:21 PM
| link to this | reply
unicorn, this is not a sarcastic or smarmy question at all, but I seriously want to know - what sin or sins EXACTLY are being committed on Halloween? I'm seriously not getting it. I require information!
posted by
roofpig
on October 27, 2004 at 1:19 PM
| link to this | reply
I really enjoyed your post because....
Halloween is really not big at all in Australia. In fact it is only recently starting to become a little more recognised. My neighbour and I took our children trick or treating one halloween a couple of years ago. It was almost a waste of time. No houses were lit up, if people DID come to the door they merely looked puzzled and some were embarrassed as they had nothing to give (which was fine of course....but 3-10 year olds DO get a tad disappointed!) We came across two other groups of trick or treaters and between us all we shared the knowledge of which houses were Halloween friendly. Turns out there were three or four and that was enough to fill our kids with excitement and delight. I had made a HUGE tray of toffees to give out. Turns out I divided them between the two other groups mentioned and our own kids. One set of neighbours told my then 3 year old daughter, who was dressed up as the sweetest fairy you have ever seen, "We don't believe in Halloween" and slammed! the door in her face (I was at the bottom of the stairs waiting to see their reaction to opening the door to a tiny fairy!?).
This year we have moved to a new neighbourhood, and the kids around here assure me that it's a "pretty good" street for trick-or-treating, especially as there are some Canadians up the road who go the whole hog. God Bless those Canadians! My best friend lives there and they adore Halloween, so I get all the fun and excitement relayed to me via the phone. Perhaps in future years, it will become as big as Christmas....but as we never even HAD halloween at all when I was a child, I think it may be the next generation (kid's kids) who really get to celebrate in style!
Sorry so long!!!
posted by
suomynona
on October 27, 2004 at 1:16 PM
| link to this | reply
Unicorn, nineteen minutes and now it is time for me to weigh in on...
the Halloween issue. Halloween is a made up holiday without much in its history because it has Celtic origins and because the way the Celts were, they chose not to leave any written history of their people. Everything that we have is second hand knowledge at best. Which is exactly what the Bible is. God did not write anything. Humans did. Hang on Unicorn, before your head explodes
Yes apparently the Bible is inspired by God but inspired and written by are two different worlds. Lots of things get written down. I personally follow the path of not believing everything I read and only half of what I see. I know I am going to regret but oh, well...
posted by
theinnkeepersdaughter
on October 27, 2004 at 1:15 PM
| link to this | reply
theinnkeeper
O.K. what was my time?
Kooka, if all you teach your kids about Christmas is the materialistic gift garbage, then shame on you and pity for your wallet and your children.
If you want to continue to spread YOUR propaganda of Halloween being 'innocent' fun, then you knock yourself out.
However, I think you at least owe it to your children to give them all the facts - about everything actually, not just halloween. But this post isn't about child rearing and I won't get into that again.
I used to go trick or treating, dress up myself, take my daughter when she was young, I liked it, but in my spirit it always made me uneasy. I wasn't living a Christian life either. But now, because I have given my life to God and have read and reread Scripture so many times and have learned that I was in disobedience, I know that what I was doing was wrong FOR ME & MY CHILDREN. I know also why participating in the halloween thing always made me uneasy.
So, you take your children out and enjoy yourself with them, but as for me I'll be home praying for the ones who are participating and I'll be enjoying my family just by spending quality, fun, wholesome, sin-free, worry free time with them.
posted by
PastorB
on October 27, 2004 at 1:08 PM
| link to this | reply
I love Halloween!
It's my favorite Holiday for all the reasons you listed. When the Halloween stuff starts popping up in stores I get all excited and I feel like a kid again! I love that!
posted by
RachelAnna
on October 27, 2004 at 12:58 PM
| link to this | reply
Halloween is a family fun holiday. I enjoy the excitement of children and sharing with neighbors. To all the nay sayers who post after us, let's turn out the lights when they knock on the door
posted by
the-loanlady
on October 27, 2004 at 12:58 PM
| link to this | reply
Halloween is a family holiday. I enjoy the positive sharing with others and excitement of children. If the naysayers come behind me lets all turn off our lights when they come to the door
posted by
the-loanlady
on October 27, 2004 at 12:56 PM
| link to this | reply
Kookamalooka, I totally agree with the innocence of Halloween thing. The neighborly bit you were talking about made me remember that one year in my neighborhood one of the families opened up their garage and were serving free doughnuts and cider to anyone who stopped by. The spirit of giving on Halloween, a supposed evil night? Get out of town!
posted by
roofpig
on October 27, 2004 at 12:56 PM
| link to this | reply
And the bait is cast....
How long, you figure, Kooka?
posted by
theinnkeepersdaughter
on October 27, 2004 at 12:52 PM
| link to this | reply