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aardvark

Yes, that is what inspired this post.

posted by kooka_lives on October 21, 2004 at 1:14 PM | link to this | reply

mr. p.i.g.

i think i understand

posted by Xeno-x on October 21, 2004 at 12:54 PM | link to this | reply

Were you reading some of my dialogue with Unicorn about the Garden of Eden? I tried to explore a similar vein of thought with him, but we didn't get very far.

posted by aardvark on October 21, 2004 at 12:54 PM | link to this | reply

That should say I "WASN'T" making the argument etc. etc.

posted by roofpig on October 21, 2004 at 7:32 AM | link to this | reply

Witty, I was making the argument that God is responsible as much as I was trying to make the argument sound ludricrous. The logic is that if someone wants to say that it's not God's fault sin is around and that it's man's fault, in essence they are wrong because it IS God's fault. I was trying to point out a fallacy in their argument.

posted by roofpig on October 21, 2004 at 7:26 AM | link to this | reply

Roofpig

The trouble with your argument is that it's back to the old problem of no one wanting to take responsibility for their actions. Somehow, I don't think I would get much sympathy from a judge & jury if I said "Sorry, I can't be held responsible for killing that person, it was god's fault because apparently he created me". Yes, you may have put the jar there, but you didn't break it. You were responsible only for creating it, at which point your responsibility ended. Your assistant broke it, therefore it is his fault. You cannot take responsibility for his actions. Whether you should have created it in the first place is a different matter entirely.

posted by Witty_Woman on October 21, 2004 at 7:20 AM | link to this | reply

back off the subject

sort of
sin evolved.
there was a time when there was no sin.
I've read that apes exhibit similar behavior to humans -- stealing -- also subcominant males copulating on the sly with the dominant male's females -- and the females letting them do that -- then when the dominant male looks their way, they quit and act as though nothing happened
lying, in a sense.
also if a member of the tribe takes food it isn't supposed to, if a dominant member looks their way, they hide the stolen item.
again, lying.
so when humans became more cognizant, laws had to be created to inhibit killing and stealing and lyinc and taking a mate that was "somebody else's" -- women were property.
a more sophistocated system developed around government and religion
thus sin was born.
now -- I wonder if anthropoligists have observed anything like a system of laws and punishment among our primate relatives.

posted by Xeno-x on October 21, 2004 at 7:09 AM | link to this | reply

I always liked to think that if sin was truly man's fault, God created man, so logically God is still (indirectly) responsible for sin. It would be like if I concocted some sort of flesh-eating plague and kept it in a jar, but my assistant accidentally breaks the jar. Yeah, it's his fault, but I created the thing, so ultimately I'm at fault.

posted by roofpig on October 21, 2004 at 6:21 AM | link to this | reply

Choice above all

Sin and evil are subjective terms that are open to human interpretation, actually in the literal sense the only exist because of human interpretation. God stands by and watches to see what you will do in his universe. Good or Evil, you create your surroundings.

posted by Diversion4u on October 21, 2004 at 2:18 AM | link to this | reply

Sin is a christian concept and doesn't exist outside christianity. Sin is choosing to rule your own life rather than letting god rule it, as Adam & Eve chose to do. The "original sin" wasn't the point when Eve bit the apple, it was the point when BOTH of them decided to make their own choices and their own decisions. By doing this, ALL humans are considered sinners. They can only become non-sinners by accepting Jesus's death on the cross. Therefore, only christians can sin and only christians can repent their sins. As an atheist, you cannot sin, because the concept doesn't exist for you and will never exist unless you accept Jesus as your saviour. If you don't plan on doing that, you needn't worry about sin.

posted by Witty_Woman on October 21, 2004 at 1:38 AM | link to this | reply

Good Post kooka

posted by justAcarpenter on October 20, 2004 at 8:13 PM | link to this | reply

Kooka -

Yup, you and Westwend are right. Man created sin. God had nothing to do with it.

posted by sannhet on October 20, 2004 at 5:40 PM | link to this | reply

okay it's good

good questioning
but you know that
you don't need me to tell you that
i'm speechless
aren't you glad?

posted by Xeno-x on October 20, 2004 at 5:38 PM | link to this | reply

okay it'

posted by Xeno-x on October 20, 2004 at 5:36 PM | link to this | reply

yeah i know

i just didn't have anything else to say -- buncha kids crowding into the computer lab.

posted by Xeno-x on October 20, 2004 at 5:35 PM | link to this | reply

SIN

Sin was not to be had because if man knew good from evil we can also have free will and free will lets us know that god is not there. I want to know how the people that made the bible know what god said. Were they there when he said it. I dont think so. And how can one being make all good and evil. When I cant even make my check book come out right.

posted by poms77 on October 20, 2004 at 5:16 PM | link to this | reply

old man

I would have to agree due to the fact I believe the bible itself to be Man made, and so the concept itself is purely man made.

The post however was written with the idea that the was a level of literal truth behind the Bible, in which case sin had to have been created by God.