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neamer
If God is not neutral, then God is far from being all-powerful as shown by the simple proof that bad stuff happens. Either there is an equal force to God that represents the other side of things or God is neutral so that he himself can create both the good and the bad.
The universe itself is neutral. It was created as anything else is created. After its creation, if awareness is there it can become good or evil, but in truth it is purely neutral. I highly doubt there is any awareness to the universe.
Is a rock neutral? Is a tree neutral? Is a cloud neutral? Is life neutral? All those things are neutral to begin with, but can be used to do good or evil or without awareness both good and bad things can come from them, but are still neutral due to the simple fact that there was no awareness behind them.
One of the big differences is that I believe that if there are any higher beings out there, they are products of the universe. They were created randomly in order to help stabilize things and bring balance. They have no will of desire any more than the organ's our of bodies. The just do what they need to do.
While you believe there is one higher power and that the universe is a product of this higher power, at which point you have to put an awareness into everything and so everything has to be good or evil because it was created by an awareness. Although once more if such a thing is true then God once more either has to be neutral or there has to be an opposite of him with equal power, otherwise it make no sense to have an ultimate body of good creating evil.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 20, 2004 at 7:09 AM
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Here is an interesting one for you. If we rearrange the letters of GOOD and EVIL we can come up with LIVE GOOD. In other words, we can turn our backs on evil and live as good a life as we can. Perhaps even more interesting is O VILE GOD ... And I wonder what the significance of the letter D is? Doesn't look like a coincidence to me that EVIL had a D put in front of it to make the word DEVIL. Anyone know anything about this?
posted by
Witty_Woman
on October 20, 2004 at 6:48 AM
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neamer again
sheesh!!!
you're talking from the conclusion -- that is -- you've concluded that there is a good creator god and you then apply what you perceive as logic around that premise.
odd -- how "God makes his rain to fall on the good and evil alike." very neutral, if you ask me -- words of your Jesus (my Yeshua).
plenty of examples of this -- earthquakes, floods, disasters of all types -- 9/11 -- all hit good and evil alike. Do you think there were no Christians as you would portray Christians as being -- that there were no Christians killed or maimed or affected in any way by these disasters?
of course there were.
"True Christians" as you call them -- wouldn't you think they would be immune to all the ills that befall everyone?
I personally feel that "God" -- the neutral god of the Universe -- let's go back to YHVH shall we? -- the Tetragrammaton, the LORD of the King James Old Testament -- YHVH means, "to exist" -- ok? this is just about as neutral as it gets -- Existence, pure and simple. The letters have genders -- Y and V are male and H are female -- thus the name itself is gender neutral -- although the Yahveh of early Israelites was portrayed as a male (I think obvious male organs portrayed too) and had a consort, or female companion (wonder what took place between Yahveh and his female companion?).
But back to the subject -- I personally feel that this "god" has favored me tremendously -- better health both physicall and mentally than many around me, including "Christians" -- a rather solid and stable domestic life -- few financial problems -- like Yeshua said, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God (Spiritual Realms) and all these things shall be added unto you." -- I haven't sought the material things and yet I have all that I need -- again like Yeshua said -- clothed like the lilies of the field and fed like the sparrow. And I am far from your brand of Christian, I assure you.
So what do you think of that?
posted by
Xeno-x
on October 20, 2004 at 6:34 AM
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The notion of a neutral God has no logical basis
Indeed, the idea of nutality in nature is seriously flawed. Nature, as relected in the existence os the universe is hardly neutral. In fact, the creation of the universe was a most prejudice act, as relected by the forces that were put into motion. Additionally, the selection of a people choisen by God and the birth, death and reesurection of His Son can hardly be considered neutral.
posted by
neamer
on October 19, 2004 at 9:05 PM
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kooka
Exactly. It's our awarenes of our actions, the conscious choice, that can make an action evil. When your kid does something wrong, you are there to correct him in some way. In the process you are teaching him the difference between the concepts of right and wrong. An animal can't make such a distinction, therefore their actions are not defined as good or evil. Again, I agree with the subjective nature of the concept, but simply because it can't be written in stone in all cases 100% of the time, does not mean the concept in theory doesn't exist.
posted by
Talion
on October 19, 2004 at 8:17 PM
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talion
Yes, but not wihtout our level of understanding. If a dog or bear or other wild animal does something we consider evil, they are not aware they have done anything wrong as so it can not be truely considred evil. Awareness of your actions is really needed before things can be known as good or evil, so until they have this understanding all actions are just neutral.
I know my baby boy is hardly aware of what he is doing and often he does the wrong thing, but he is not aware he is doing anything wrong and so his actions can not be considered good or evil. Even if he were to kill a person right now it could not be considred an evil act because he has no understanding of his actions as of yet. Without that understanding there can be no idea of good or evil.
I could also go into the idea that there are times when doing actions such as killing can be considred good and so that goes agaisnt the idea that good and evil are already decided.
posted by
kooka_lives
on October 19, 2004 at 8:03 PM
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kooka
Humans are social creatures and in order for groups to thrive, there must be rules. As humans evolved and societies formed, the rules became more complex. The actions of following the rules were defined as good, the actions that broke them evil. Even in nature there are rules and animals instinctively follow them. Humans have a superior intellect which allows us to act beyond instinct, both for the benefit and detriment of the race as a whole. Again, these acts became known as good and/or evil. While the specific definitions vary, as concepts they surely exist.
posted by
Talion
on October 19, 2004 at 7:41 PM
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