Go to MY PERCEPTIVE REFLECTION!!
- Add a comment
- Go to NOPE..THAT REMINDS ME OF A NIGHT OUT WITH MY HUSBAND.......................
mia ella
your comment was excellent.
tg
posted by
tbgroucho
on October 6, 2004 at 12:13 PM
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MiaElla
thats how come I learned.......my dad was an alcholic and I saw many things I don't ever want my children to see and grow up and hold on to..thats why I chose this way................its best for me and my children.....................thank you for reading and commenting
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 12:03 PM
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Symphony,
You are amazing and strong and I you. I really do think you are an angel and a wonderful mother.
I have to agree with you-look-fabulous on one thing. My dad was a violent drunk and beat my mom, he nearly killed her once or twice, but I loved him more than anything in the world...more than her even. I feel bad about it now, but I still want my father and I always will.
It will effect your children no matter what, but it's proabbly a lot safer for them having him gone.
posted by
MiaElla
on October 6, 2004 at 12:00 PM
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tbgroucho
Very impressive comments.
posted by
Witty_Woman
on October 6, 2004 at 11:59 AM
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tbgroucho.........thank you ever so much
this is an excellent comment...........just excellent
YLF....please read this.................this covers it all................thank you tbgroucho you are the best
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 11:58 AM
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drunks and divorce
1. the kind of behavior your husband exhibited is criminal. How one treats criminals of course is complicated, especially when one is married to the criminal, but let's be clear -- that's what it is. Not all alcoholics engage in criminal behavior. Your man did.
2. Alcoholism is a disease. This is true. The interest in repairing an alcoholic is a noble one, whatever else YLF has said that seems to be a harsh judgment. And alcoholics can change -- our friend Wiley can speak to this. Unlike, say, cancer, where there are limited courses of treatment, alcoholism is something that ultimately the sufferer has to recognize when he's hit bottom and then can be cured. The truth is, it's not about choosing between the bottle and the family. It's about a willingness to be cured.
3. could this marriage be saved? theoretically, yes, of course. But you don't allow a man who hits into the home. You can have all the compassion for the alcoholic in the world; but he can't be a threat to your children. Living in fear that one day dad will die of heart failure is not the same as living in fear that one day he'll come home from work drunk and beat you. You don't let the man stay in your house.
4. Your man's problem is a problem also of powerlessness. He would need in addition to a course of treatment for alocholism a serious raising of his consciousness. Men take power and assume power as their perogative and this can have very dire consequences, at the global and personal scale. It's also a very positve experience, but too often men see an easy way to master their lives by dominating their households to the point of fear. The children don't grow up loving, they grow up fearing.
5. YLF -- had Symphony's husband developed a liver illness and died, or had he been killed in a pub fight, what would you say to her raising her kids without a father? Would you have more compassion than you appear to have? Would you blame the husband for putting himself in those situations? Yes, a decision to throw a man out is different of course -- my question is whether or not it's symphony's choice that upsets you or the notion of children growing up without a father. This in not an argument -- it's a question of clarification, and perhaps it's not even a matter of choosing, esp. since one side is hypothetical and the other fact.
6. There are many kinds of absent fathers. Some are divorced, others emotionally removed, others logisitically removed because they work too many hours and hardly ever see their children. Divorced or not, this phenomenon is challenging to the raising of children.
7. I am bitter enough to say that many people give up on marriages far too easily today. They don't see it's work. But what does one do when one partner refuses to work? that's a hard question to answer. YLF would say you work anyway, and that is honorable and perhaps righteous, but again, all the compassion in the world does not mean any person has to accept being a punching bag.
i've tried not to be judgmental here. Forgive me if i have. Walking a mile in another's shoes is not easy, as the comments I've read indicate. But it is the compassionate way. Just some stuff I was thinking about. tg
posted by
tbgroucho
on October 6, 2004 at 11:52 AM
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Oceandancer
thank you
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 11:40 AM
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Witty_Woman
thank you very much, I stayed with him for far to long....and blogit was who helped me see sense as I gave every excuse in the book to try and work it out...but every time something happened I ran to blogit and in the end....I left and took the children on holiday and we have came back to a new start me and the children are very happy..........there dad is trying to sort himself out..if he does or not that is up to him..but I am happy without him.........thanks for reading..take care
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 11:40 AM
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Way ta go.
posted by
Oceandancer
on October 6, 2004 at 11:39 AM
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Had to backtrack a bit to get the gist of all this. I had a friend once whose husband hit her, usually because of alcohol. His first marriage had ended because of it, this was his second. Everytime it happened she would say she was going to leave, but she never did. He even kicked her in the stomach when she was pregnant with their second child. She finally left him when he turned on the children. As for trying to help rather than leaving, it is sometimes worth a try but it might be more sensible to do the leaving part first. When there are children involved you don't take risks. If you are happy and your children are happy, you did the right thing.
posted by
Witty_Woman
on October 6, 2004 at 11:36 AM
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You-look-fabulous
Hmmm.........bringing sombody down to make yourself better...........does not work with me...so you might as well........try with somebody else...because the more you tell me I am wrong...the more I have power knowing I am right..............and I feel so damn good about it!
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 11:20 AM
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Tanoolicious
thank you so much for everything
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 11:17 AM
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You-look-fabulous
like I said before............GROW UP......and when you are in my situation...then come back to me again..........ok
the blessing as a child.............what right do you have bringing up my past........you don't know nothing about me....so keep your opinions to yourself............I am not one bit interested with what you got to say because you talk shit...............I have never heard so much crap from somebody....................you are a very weak woman
and what Tan said is right...................
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 11:16 AM
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the way i see it you will never agree with anything that doesnt march to your tune.... youre remidning me of my dad too much thinking he is wearing the crown of "EVERYTHING I SAY OR THINK IS RIGHT" , this is ticking me off.... im leaving this blog...
Sorry Symphony, i had to leave... you know im here for you... thanks for everything today sweetie {{hugs}}
posted by
Tanoolicious
on October 6, 2004 at 11:16 AM
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I will never agree with divorce.
posted by
TARZANA
on October 6, 2004 at 11:12 AM
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Yes it is a blessing YLF, she is giving her children everything she might have missed out on before ....... even if he is their dad... some men are dads just by name and take no part in their familie's lives... she knwos whats best for her and her children and seems to be doing one hell of a good job at it
posted by
Tanoolicious
on October 6, 2004 at 11:12 AM
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Symphony,
Is that the blessing you were referring to when you said that everything you loved was taken away from you as a child? You're just upset about the situation. Maybe you could take some time to think it over. He will always be their dad, no matter what. I think you should repair him, not trash him.
posted by
TARZANA
on October 6, 2004 at 11:10 AM
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Youre welcome Symphony, do what makes YOU feel good and to hell with the world... its YOUR life after all... and if you mess up, then you start over.... no one expects miracles of us.... we dont need to impress anyone to make ourselves happy {{hugs}}
posted by
Tanoolicious
on October 6, 2004 at 11:10 AM
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Tanoolicious
THANK YOU
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 11:09 AM
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Tanoolicious
thank you so much..................you are indeed right...........................we all learn by our mistakes...thats why they happen.................thank you
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 11:08 AM
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roofpig13
exactley especially as her comment came from nowhere...this has nothing to do with my post...all thats been wrote in my post is how happy I am to throw clothes out that remind me of him..I don't need to be told I am wrong................when I feel what I am doing is great.................thank you so much for everything
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 11:07 AM
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YLT divorce is a BLESSING when someone is going through HELL.... open your eyes!
would you rather stick in a marriage for your childrens sake and maybe have them physically harmed or even you? Would you be able to live with yourselves? We arent God, we arent miracle workers...... we cant change the other person to suit us, they change themselves... i am very proud of Symphony for what she did and dont doubt her actions.... you should be praising her not bringing her down... you should know better
posted by
Tanoolicious
on October 6, 2004 at 11:04 AM
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You-look-fabulous
yes I am not surprised you would think that.........................I feel sorry for you I really do.......................you may think its an ignorent and a selfish way out .....but I think its a hell of a strong way to go and get the life me and my children deserve.....................happiness is where I will be.....why somebody with the same attitude as you will have to put up with a life full of tears
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 11:04 AM
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Symphony, well done of you for acting in the right way and getting your children away from him adn whatever you do dont blame yourself for saying you picked an alcoholic.... just thank yourself that you had enough sense to do what was right and get away, that differentiates you from someone who is not right and makes you a special person.... {{hugs}} .. if we didnt screw up from time to time how do we know we are making the right decisions?
posted by
Tanoolicious
on October 6, 2004 at 11:02 AM
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YLF, personally, I think - sorry, I know - this is touchy subject for Sym, so maybe in this instance the issue should not have been pressed. I know you're trying to help and you're a great person for doing it, but it's something that you and Sym are not going to see eye-to-eye on, so why create bad blood because of it?
posted by
roofpig
on October 6, 2004 at 11:02 AM
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He was never an alcoholic in my conscious lifetime. Divorce is a selfish and ignorant way out.
posted by
TARZANA
on October 6, 2004 at 11:01 AM
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Tanoolicious
thank you for understanding and relating......I also remeber horrible memories through my childhood with my drunken father...............it seems so unreal that I picked an alcoholic...but I was not to know of course...........but I refuse to let my children feel what I have and still do
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:59 AM
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You-look-fabulous
yes but I am sure he was not an alcholic or I am sure you would know.......and nobody drives somebody to drink......its down to the person..............................people change if they want too.........its not your or my decision to make but theres
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:58 AM
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roofpig,
How else might I phrase this important message directly and without confusing the listener?
posted by
TARZANA
on October 6, 2004 at 10:57 AM
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roofpig13
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:56 AM
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Yes Im doing much better Symphony, thanks to you and your words... im sorry you didnt get my email... maybe ill write it again though it was a very long email...
Yes they never do change their spots and everyone around them is affected, they either get screwed and end up like them or go through alot of problems and become someone else vowing to NEVER be like them.... i am the second option... i never want to be like him...
Symphony i understand because ive lived with it all my life... my earlies memory of my dad was smashing my little hand with his big one when i was 3 and learning to write the number "2" thats not something i want my own children to remember....
posted by
Tanoolicious
on October 6, 2004 at 10:55 AM
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Well, my father was a very good man, and I never saw him drunk and never once heard him raise his voice in anger, and yet my mother complained to me once that he drank. Apparently, she
drove him to drink, as he was always such a good person all my life. So, you don't think people can change? I do.
posted by
TARZANA
on October 6, 2004 at 10:54 AM
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YLF, I'm not ganging up on you or anything, but sometimes the way you word your comments is a little... I'm not sure. I know you mean well - I read your stuff a lot - so I kind of know where you are coming from. I just think you might want to rethink how you phrase things sometimes.
As for the situation itself, people need to react to things in different ways; what might be a solution for one person might not be the universal "right" solution for another person. Everybody has different problems, no matter how similar they may seem, and no one solution will solve them all.
That's just my opinion. Take it or leave it. If you take it, that'll be 5 bucks.
posted by
roofpig
on October 6, 2004 at 10:54 AM
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You-look-fabulous
you will never understand...so why you bothering too...........huh?
nobody ever said he had to give up drink completly.......but again..why do I need to justifye myself to you...........I have never been happier without my husband..and my children have felt wonderful because they now can relax and never have to be on edge..............when they are older..I will explain...but why they are young..it wont hurt...............
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:52 AM
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Tanoolicious
you are exactley right...............I hope you are ok?...............but lepords never change they spots because they do not want too..................thank you so much for all your comments you really do understand...I thank you so much for that...............hope you are ok...take care
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:49 AM
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And of course, we're talking about excess -- not about making someone think they can never participate in a social glass of wine or a beer with everyone else. You know what I mean? I disagree with the people who say nobody should ever touch the stuff. If that were true, then it should not be sold in the stores at all. You know? I think he is afaid of the extremes, and I agree, extremes are even worse than not worrying about it.
posted by
TARZANA
on October 6, 2004 at 10:45 AM
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Well if he stayed there he would ruin their wholes lives…. A violent person does NOT change…. I have an extremely violent father and if you ask me if I am happy and all? No I am not, I am emotionally fucked because of him and wish with all my heart he wasn’t there when we were growing up…. My mother raised us VERY well and she took his place when he was sitting on his ass or throwing things around…. Even when he was there it didn’t help… if he doesn’t want to change, you cant do anything.. a leopard doesn’t change his spots. … perseverance does NOT belong here…
posted by
Tanoolicious
on October 6, 2004 at 10:45 AM
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You-look-fabulous
don't you think I did that first.....or do you think I just threw him out and that was the end...............I do not need to explain myself to you anyway..................but just so you know..................its not as easy as you seem to think..................
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:44 AM
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Tan, I'm not trying to be rude or mean. It's just that we're talking about their whole lives when we talk about what to do with this person who hasn't been cooperating with them. I say, perserverance would make a win for all.
posted by
TARZANA
on October 6, 2004 at 10:40 AM
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Of course not, Symphony. I would tell him straight that if he does not quit drinking, he will destroy his children's futures. I would make him see that he needs to think of someone else.
posted by
TARZANA
on October 6, 2004 at 10:37 AM
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Symphony, no need to thank me, i was just heloing out a good friend who helped me out...
You-look-fabolous.... your comments arent so fabolous you know... if you would stop throwing your damned insults around.... how the hell can you JUDGE when you arent there... maybe whatever you d oworks for you becausde you turn a blind eye to the truth and see what you want.,... she knows what she is doing and it is working for her, so you do your thing and let her do hers without dictating to her the right and wrong points of your so called book of "how to life your life"........ maybe youre the only one who knows wat youre talking about because youre the only one who believes it...
She has her virtue, he threw his away,,, its crystal clear... nothing else to say...
oh god Symphony... you didnt get the email yet??? this is bad...... if you use msn then you can add me on the email adress i used to send your email ....
posted by
Tanoolicious
on October 6, 2004 at 10:37 AM
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You-look-fabulous
you think so huh?..........................silly women ...is all I can say........................so you would put up with the crap is that what your saying?
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:35 AM
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hugz_n_kisses
thank you...............it sure does
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:32 AM
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Well, Symphony, I'm the only one here who knows what I'm talking about. It takes virtue to love your family. Throwing people away for their flaws is the opposite of virtue.
posted by
TARZANA
on October 6, 2004 at 10:32 AM
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Tanoolicious
thank you very much...I wish I read this before I rambled on...because you said it better...thank you so much for that.................I still have not got your email...............maybe my email is full............I will try and empty it.....................thank you so much for everything
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:31 AM
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great sweetie, it so feels great to have things done sxoxoxoxoxoxox
posted by
hugz_n_kisses
on October 6, 2004 at 10:30 AM
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You-look-fabulous
grow up...this post has nothing to do with my children it is about myself getting my life back...he put HIS family through a lot of crap...you was not there...your answer to everything maybe fix this and that for a marriage but when your children watch there dad drunk and smashing the house up...thats not the way....... and to ask him to choose between drink and his family..he already chose!
my dad was an alcoholic and growing up I saw too much.. I rather not pass onto my kids....they will not be emoitonal hurt because they are too young and they have the best stabily they can ever have from me.....................so now mind your own buisness...............and pay attention to the post if you want to read and comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:30 AM
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I believe from what we know of symphony, she isnt the type to instill hatred and lack of forgiveness in her children towards their father.... an alcoholic father wont benifit them at all..... that is not something they want to remember... She cant replace him but she will do her best to make up the lost space because of his mistakes.... he should choose between his family or the drink... there should be no hesitation when he decides where his real priorities lie ....... if they dont understand now, they will when they grow up and start to comprehend the world and he will still be in the same spot he was....
posted by
Tanoolicious
on October 6, 2004 at 10:25 AM
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I know it's not your fault, but you still can't replace him. Your children will only see that as a betrayal of who they are, and to give up on their father is a direct insult to them -- just as if you gave up on them. They wouldn't feel this or tell you how they feel until they are grown, and then only if they are not too damaged to express their emotions to you. If someone needs to let go of alcohol, that's what they need to do, not let go of life altogether. You shouldn't let him choose between a drink and his family.
posted by
TARZANA
on October 6, 2004 at 10:20 AM
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roofpig13
not long now babe................
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:17 AM
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Mmm... wine... only 5 more days and I can drink it again!
posted by
roofpig
on October 6, 2004 at 10:11 AM
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MiaElla
I love a clean house...it makes me feel great.....................now I am going to relax with a bottle of wine.........bliss
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:10 AM
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You-look-fabulous
my husband and I split up a while back because he is an alcholic and violent...something my children are better out of....so yeah if things were well then great....but between hubby and I....its not.......my children will always be happy.....because thats the gift I hand to them
posted by
_Symphony_
on October 6, 2004 at 10:09 AM
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Symphony,
My you have been busy. It's nice to have a fresh start sometimes....and a clean house is the best!
posted by
MiaElla
on October 6, 2004 at 10:07 AM
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Your relationship with your children will depend entirely upon keeping your relationship with your husband alive and well. That's just the way family works. It would be their life.
posted by
TARZANA
on October 6, 2004 at 10:05 AM
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