Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
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You have a strange take on history then
Hitler openly claimed to be doing the work of God.
The Crusades were a holy that seriously hurt England and had no real purpose. In fact all that I have seen says there was no real reason for them outside of forcing the Christian life on others. All would have been fine if the Christians had not gone and said 'You all need to be converted, even if it is through blood shed.'
And where in the would do you see the Inquisition as not being genocide?
They were saying 'Either convert or die'.
And you gave no defense to all the fighting that is going on today in the name of God.
The message is not followed by any, if there is even a message there to begin with. I have studied the Bible on my own with a full open mind and I have seen that these people who commit inhuman acts in the name of God are following the message that is there. God does make it clear that he believes in killing of the non believers and fighting wars in his name.
I will admit that Atheist have commit inhumane acts. But compared to the acts of Christians it is a small number of killings. Part of atheism is that you figure out you own beliefs and do not follow and premade doctrine. These means that those who are atheist and commit vile acts are not doing it through their beliefs, but because they just are screwed up in the head. Christians on the other hand do have that Bible thing that tells them what God wants them to do.
You are still going by the idea that if one's views are not what you wish a Christians' view to be then they are not Christian and that is not correct at all.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 12, 2004 at 7:15 AM
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Hitler was a religious crusader?
Whatever,dude.
I knew the Crusades and the Inquisition would come up. Be Real. The Inquisition can in no way be called genocide. Put down your White Anglo-Saxon Protestant History book and you might learn another point of view. Catholics kicked Muslim butt and Muslims kicked Catholic butt. And the Crusades began as an effort to get the Mohommedans to quit kicking Christian butt in the first place.
The people of the Soviet bloc countries suffered(and some died) up 'til the fall of the Iron Curtain.
And you seem to be forgetting about Lenin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Nicolai Ceaucescu.
So people claim to be religious and they do horrible things. Whoop-dee-doo. Atheists(see list above) do too. It's the messenger who's flawed, not necessarily the message.
posted by
AnCatubh
on September 12, 2004 at 12:15 AM
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Yes, outdated and flawed
Better minds have also provided just as much proof that there is no Higher Being. I have already admitted in the past that neither side will ever get 100% proof, btu instead each side will have enough proof to full their beliefs and so it becomes a pointless debate if you get emotional about. If you wish to really debate it for the sake of debate, that can be healthy.
So I am wondering what events you are talking about when you say 'the worst genocidal regimes have been anti-God and anti-religion,' I would love some great examples that adding them up out do the Crusades, the Inquisitions the Holocaust and the present warring in the Middle East just for starters. I am well aware of the acts committed in the USSR in the middle of the last century, but beyond that I am unaware of any great genocide committed by those who claim to be unbelievers.
The problem itself does not lie with in the religions themselves though. It lies in the blind faith and the forcing of beliefs on others. Organized religion does teach, I have seen this too many times and know personally too many people who are believers and have gone to church who will openly admit to having been taught such things, that you do not think, you do not question, you do not go beyond the teachings of the church. Right there religion is holding us back and causing the problems we are facing today. Once we break free of this hold religion has over us we will see growth and we will see the ideas of freedom become stronger.
I have studied the Bible enough to know just how outdated the ideas are. Due ot this people pick and choose what parts they wish to follow because if they try to follow some parts it becomes very obvious just how outdated the Bible really is. Instead the somehow justify the parts they wish to follow and just say the rest is to be ignored. At this point hte completely make the whole of the Bible irrelevant and show that it is not the Bible that they follow, but rather they use the Bible to back up any preconceived beliefs they have.
In the end true beliefs is already dead and has been for some time. Most who claim to believe now days are just being stubborn and can not admit that they or their ancestors made any mistakes in the beliefs. You do get some who honestly wish to believe, but they do not really follow the beliefs they claim to have. They pick and choose what parts of the Bible ar worth following and what parts are not. That is not true beliefs. It is an idea I have been trying to get across to people for some time here. They just do not wish to listen to it.
I think I am just going to have to restate all of this as post tomorrow.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 11, 2004 at 8:27 PM
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outdated and flawed?
at the risk of sounding juvenile, there's nothing new about your ideas and better minds than ours have arrived (through reason) at the conclusion that some kind of Supreme Being exists. As for religion holding humanity back from where we need to go, well, the worst genocidal regimes have been anti-God and anti-religion. Even where religion was espoused(Jonestown and Waco,e.g.) the leaders were certifiable nut jobs, not just power hungry egomaniacs.
The fact is, Kooka, there are idiots, charlatans, creeps of every stripe. Some claim to "have religion", others not. It's not their beliefs or lack of them, necessarily, that make People will always look for a justification for whatever or however they want to live their lives. oh, kids are at it. bye
posted by
AnCatubh
on September 11, 2004 at 6:20 PM
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amdg
Why Do I Care?
I could have sworn I have talked about this many, many times. It is the flawed ideas that come from religion that are holding us back and hurting the country. When religious ideas are used the way we see them used, it affects everyone. I want the best future for my boys and I do not see that coming from people following outdated and obvious flawed religious ideas. It is obvious to me that those ideas can only lead us to more problems and not provide a good future for my sons.
posted by
kooka_lives
on September 11, 2004 at 8:09 AM
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hi,kooka
I'm sure you've missed me terribly.
I totally agree with you-(pull out the smelling salts) The examples you cited are Christianity at it's silliest. I think a lot of Christians have these erroneous ideas about God 'cuz they don't think it through but you must know that not all Christians think God is capable of evil. How can you call him the Supreme Good and say he can do bad?
But there are larger questions here. Is what we consider a bad thing or occurence the same in God's eyes? To what extent does he intervene in our lives? Is it true that he works all things together for the good? Do we need to work with him to find the good?
I still haven't figured out why you care...
posted by
AnCatubh
on September 11, 2004 at 2:32 AM
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We try to find reasons because we suffer so....
but I am not sure why the reasons assume punishment and reward. I lost my sister in-law (to be--never knew it) to leukemia when she was just 19. I know I write about it often, but it was the defining moment of my life. I was 16. And I lost my childhood and my teenage-hood right there. It sloughed away. My sister in-law was the best person I ever knew. She suffered brutally because in 1976 that's what chemo was like. And for what? I am now 44 and I still miss her every day. But her death gave me an empathy and a compassion I don't think I would have had else. And whether that's karma or self-determination...it doesn't matter. Suffering makes us humane. And you can't know until it has shot you straight through your own heart, as you know for yourself. I thought I understood physical pain because I was always so strong and stoic about every injury I ever sustained. Until I developed a chronic neuropathy. It is real agony--you can take that acute stuff because it is there and then it goes away, but not this. Ironically, it is a side effect of chemo so I know now that my sister in-law suffered it. She so seldom complained. And now I understand what torture is about, how the body just keeps going even when you think you'd go into shock or die of it already. But when someone is hurting, I know . Other than being kind and patient, I don't know the application of this physical suffering yet. But whether God exists or not, I need to believe some good can come out of these random events, out of chaos. They say black holes, the great destroyers, fuel every galaxy, make worlds possible. I love that image.
posted by
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
on September 10, 2004 at 8:16 PM
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sheesh kid you're good
but -- people have to have something to blame things on
or credit to --
not take responsibility for their own lives
not to accept life as a mixture of good and bad and that the outcome is unknown, except that personal lifestyle can lengthen or shorten a life.
Assume responsibility.
live for the moment.
love every moment you live.
etc.
I'm going to stop -- getting too philosophical.
you know where I am, kid.
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 10, 2004 at 9:36 AM
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