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Evangeline
Excellent Comment. If there where two, three or four Universes, even parallel…they would still fall under the title of “One Total Existence” …or even the title, “One Total Truth”. All things are consumed by “The Truth”.
posted by
justAcarpenter
on August 11, 2004 at 9:45 PM
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justA
Try to follow your own rules here. Do not quote from the Bible. Do not follow any established religious ideas. Go from a level of pure facts and logic. That is what you asked me to do and I did it. Please follow the same rules when countering.
posted by
kooka_lives
on August 11, 2004 at 7:11 AM
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Evangeline
I have no problem at all with the idea of infinity. In fact that is part of why I do not believe in God and Heaven and such. I look at what infinity is and the idea of something, anything, going on forever and it just does not work. All matter and all energy will go on forever, but is will be constantly changing form. I do not wish for my consciousness to go on forever. I would get very bored and existence would end up becoming meaningless. By having our short time on earth and knowing that we only have so long to roam this universe our lives then have meaning. If God really has no beginning and no end then God's existence is meaningless. He has all the time to do whatever he wants and therefore does not need to do a thing. It just does not work to have any sentient being live forever.
posted by
kooka_lives
on August 11, 2004 at 6:56 AM
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Infinity
I find it curious that people have such a hard time with the term "infinite". Yet infinity makes the universe possible. At the quantum level, particles behave randomly and yet the kitchen is not sliding into the den quite yet, so there must be a pattern to the way the particles of a particular thing are behaving. The answer is statistics. When you have an large number of something, that something will organize itself into a bell curve. Honest. Infinity, or the probability of infinity, makes the universe possible. Perhaps there are an infinite number of universes. String theory suggests parallel universes. I guess my point is that trying to understand God is like trying to understand the universe. We have such a tiny, limited ability to view these things. Our minds can't carry the proper thought.
posted by
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
on August 10, 2004 at 11:12 PM
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Thanks for accepting the challenge
I would suggest that we do not ignore logic and that we use physics, I am not big on faith, because I believe that there are enough facts that we do not have to rely on it. So let’s see what the fact’s tell us.
He would have be what?
It is true that God said, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.” This agrees with one of your conclusions. He was self created by whatever method. Rather it was The Bang or Creation really does not matter, because either way Existence began and The Truth was born. It has been said that God is in all places at all times, well so is The Truth. If that statement is true then God is everything…he is the Universe. He is the beginning and the end of everything. The biggest possible picture.
There are two ways to view God as being all powerful, the first way assumes that God can do anything…as stated by the prophets, this is not true. God cannot lie and nor can he create evil…he can only deliver The Truth. Which we might see as evil, but that is only a matter of perception. Since God cannot do anything, we have to look at the second view of all powerful…which is simply the understanding that God possesses all of the power that is known to exist. Again, this somewhat agrees with your conclusion about there being limits.
If God created everything, then that means he created the Laws of Nature. And since he can deliver only The Truth…he cannot and will not violate his own laws, to do so would compromise Existence. This agrees with one of your expectations, and expresses that God seems to be in total control of his emotions.
God is everything, more precisely he is The Truth that everything Expresses, and he is The Truth that will come next, whether we like it or not…again, in total control of his emotions. Cause and effect, are his judgment.
For an Entity to be considered God it must be able to do what?
Something can have all of the power that exists, but that does not necessarily make it God. People can worship and pray to a thing, but that does not mean that what they worship is God. A thing can possess all of the knowledge there is, but that does not make it God either. So what must an Entity be able to do to be considered God? And the answer must hold true rather you believe in this God or not.
It must be in control of everything. Now keep in mind that as it relates to this point, it does not matter if it acts intelligently or chaotically, these are only opinions describing differing perceptions of the act, we are looking at the act. It just has to in control.
Does such a Entity exist, rather you believe in it or not?
If you die of a heart attack or stroke tomorrow…did something higher than you decide your fate? Now it does not matter what you call it, was something else in control or where you? When a meteor hit the earth and wiped out the dinosaurs, did they decide their fate or did something higher?
Existence itself, for what ever reason (cause and effect I suspect), decided that it was through with the dinosaurs. At any given moment it could do the same with us. Now do you still believe that an Entity with that kind of power over us, does not exist? You were created by Existence and you will be remove by it, when it is through with you…do you believe this or not? If it has the power to make you and take you out, whenever it wants, despite all of your plans and efforts. Then it is God over you.
Does that Entity exist…regardless of whether you need to believe in it or not?
I am curious to find out what you think.
posted by
justAcarpenter
on August 10, 2004 at 2:11 PM
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kooka
You gave your honest opinion and that is what I ask for, I will post a more detailed comment a little later. Excellent comment westwind.
posted by
justAcarpenter
on August 10, 2004 at 9:05 AM
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good questions
if the accepted definition of god is used.
which is passed down from one genration to another without question.
without questioning, though, where would we be? we would basically still be in the stone age that's where.
humans have developed into questioning, seeking, exploring beings, basically above all other animals in that regard. let's stop and examine that a minute.
to me this signifies what others in blogit have asid, not just me -- that the Universe, that is, God as the Universe as an Organism, (totally indefineable) is purposefully evolving and that the nature in humans to seek and explore is part of that evolution, to what end?
for more than a millenium questioning, searching, exploring were squelched in the Christian Realms, to the point that any deviation from the edicts issued from the Central Authority were punished or eradicated in one way or another. Because of this, Christian Myth has become massively rooted in the overall Christian psyche.
When Kooka asks questions, he asks questions of this Myth.
When I and others like me ask questions, we not only ask questions of this Myth, but of seeking and exploring and progressing beyond this Myth.
There is a foundation. We all know what that foundation is. There is a building on this foundation. We all know what that building is. We need a new building on that foundation. In order for the new building to be built, what needs to be done?
posted by
Xeno-x
on August 10, 2004 at 8:29 AM
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