Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
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amdg
You are redefining words. Go check out my 'Do You Know What These Words Mean?' Blog to see the definition of some of these words you are trying to redefine for your own use. You made it very clear that you and those who think like you are the ones who get to make the final definition as to what a Christian is, and yet what you are claiming to be the definition of a Christian is a far cry from what the known definition is. That is called redefining words.
Is your God is not an ass, then it must not be the God of the Bible, because that God is a royal class ass. But some are blind to these simple facts. I have already written a few posts that have pointed out just how disturbed and sick minded the God of the Bible is. I would be scared to no end to find out such a mentally unstable creature had any power over life and death.
A Christian calling me arrogant and judgmental. How original. I never claim to know what anyone is thinking. I fully understand what I hear and read, more so than a lot here. Am I arrogant? Yes, as much as anyone else in those world, maybe a little more than some but much less than others. Judgmental? Not really. I do not judge people on anything more than what I know about them. That in itself is human nature, everyone does it. I make no judgment on anything superficial though. Race, sex, religion, sexual preference, hair color and such. None of that is important really, because it is all thing that are so stereotyped that they become meaningless.
Go and read through my post. I will often say religious ideas are flawed. That the churches are controlling. That the Bible is man made. the closet to judgmental I ma is when I say that Christians in general seem to have habits, but that is the same as watching monkeys and saying that the one species acts a certain way. In both cases there are those who will not act that way, but it is not judgmental to say that they are that way. If I were to single out a person who I do not know and say that just because they are Christian they follow the stereotyped idea of a Christian 100%, that would be judgmental. When I do say such things here it is because those people have shown me through the replies and posts, that they fit in to the stereotypical idea of a Christian and at that point it is no longer judgmental because I have something more than their basic beliefs system to understand them by.
posted by
kooka_lives
on June 24, 2004 at 1:00 PM
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AMDG
you've got to go to these people and ask what they believe in.
Mormons, as you know, are the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". They believe that Jesus, after he ascended into Heaven, then appeared in the Western Hemisphere to the indigenous peoples in Central America and preached there.
Next time a Jehovah's Witness comes to your door, accept the literature and read it.
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 24, 2004 at 7:04 AM
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who's rewritten the definition?
I happen to be one. I might know something about what it means to be one. I'm not trying to get any others to accept my definition. I'll say what I think and anyone can accept or reject it. Where's the ego in that? If that's ego your stuffed to the gills with it.
My God is not an ass and nothing I believe he teaches encourages or incites hatred. I believe God gave us a code to live by and I believe he wants us to understand it as well. That means inquiry into why certain things are true, or are they true. That is my faith tradition.
No, I won't redefine brainwashing but I'll give you a definition by way of example of the word arrogant: presuming to know what people are thinking , whether they're capable of understanding what they're hearing, and whether or not they care. It also defines judgmental.
posted by
AnCatubh
on June 23, 2004 at 11:50 PM
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amdg
Okay, so you and other have gone an rewritten a definition for Christian. I'm happy for you. Now you need to go and get that definition accepted by other. That along show the ego of Christians. You do feel you can just rewrite things when it fits you needs. Redefine love to be able to allow for such an ass of a God and still call ti loving. redefine kindness and still be able to show blind hate towards other groups just because they do something which doesn't agree with your beliefs. Redefine it all until it fits into your little world. That seems ot be what the modern Christian is trying to do. Facts do not matter one bit, because you can just redefine anything that does not work for you.
As for the brainwashing thing, I understand the idea of taking things on faith. You have to at times. But you still question it and look into the facts. With religion you get a bunch of people who do not question because they are told not to. You get people who will 100% blindly do things and believe things, not because of just faith alone, but because it has been so forced into their being that this is the truth. I have gone to enough churches to have seen this many, many times. People who sit there and completely agree with everything that is said, without having any real idea what it is they are being taught. Their minds are not truly their own and they do not care. That is brainwashing. Unless of course you wish to redefine brainwashing here as well.
posted by
kooka_lives
on June 23, 2004 at 4:58 PM
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they don't worship Christ because they don't believe he's God
Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet,too. They also somewhat honor his mother. But I don't think they would like to be called Christian. Just saying you mare doesn't make you one. And it not just my belief. Ask any professor of comparative religion to name the basic beliefs of any major religion. Jesus' divinity and the Trinity are essential beliefs for a follower of Christ.
Brainwash, hogwash! Accepting things on faith is not brainwashing. I think I've said this before but I'll say it again. Everyone takes somethings on faith. Probably 98% of everything you know is the result of someone else's inquiry. You accept on faith that the things you've learned but have not actually seen are true, if they jibe with your experience.. Ever been to the top of Mt. Everest? Probably not but others have claimed to and you've seen photographs which you probably don't think are a hoax. You surely accept that Mt. Everest exists, right? It's not contrary to reason to believe what you can not see. Why is that brainwashing? It's a claim you make frequently. Let's hear where and how this brainwashing occurs. Start with Christianity. Ought to be easy for you...
posted by
AnCatubh
on June 23, 2004 at 2:18 PM
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amdg
The most fundamental part of any organized religion is to do brainwashing on some level. Otherwise these people would be thinking for themselves and not just blindly following what they are told.
I have no ax to grind with any Christian. The simple fact is that I see most of the problems we are having as a society due to us having such a strong Christians influence. If we could break away from those outdated ideas we might be able to grow and prosper and really make the most of this world.
Oh, and Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses are Christian, unless you wish to rewrite the definition of Christianity. Basically just because they beliefs do not follow yours close enough does not mean they are not Christians., The simple fact that they believe and worship Christ makes them Christians.
posted by
kooka_lives
on June 23, 2004 at 10:27 AM
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And why would anyone follow "The Way" and shun the name which just means...
"follower of Christ"?
posted by
AnCatubh
on June 23, 2004 at 10:24 AM
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The name doesn't matter
The tenets do- Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons, W.W.C.of G., don't believe in Jesus' divinity, they don't believe in the Trinity, they don't believe Jesus calls everyone, and they don't believe in the forgiveness of sins. That makes them more like Muslims. How can you call yourself a follower of Christ if you don't believe the things Christ said about himself?
posted by
AnCatubh
on June 23, 2004 at 10:21 AM
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one more thing
it was called "The Way" before it was called Christianity.
remember Acts where other people started calling them "Christians".
If it was not Christianity then, what can you make of that?
Nowhere in the Epistles of the New Testament is anyone called Christian or is "The Way" called Christianity.
So if people today want to follow The Way, but do not want to be called Christian, what then?
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 23, 2004 at 10:02 AM
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they're not
posted by
AnCatubh
on June 23, 2004 at 10:02 AM
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amdg
you said Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses are not Christian.
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 23, 2004 at 9:57 AM
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kooka- your remarks to Odysseus
make a lie out your remarks to Ariala. "Controlling a-holes decided to brainwash the masses"? Sounds very respectful.
I haven't seen one non-Christian on here demonstrate a real knowledge of what Christianity is. It's not a cult, it doesn't involve brainwashing, and it's adherents are many and varied. Yeah, there are a lot holy asses claiming to be followers of Christ. No, it's not true there aren't other religions out there proselytizing. Jehovah's witnesses, Hare Krishnas, Mormons to name a few. They're not Christians. People, not ideas, from nearly every faith that ever was, have perpetrated evil on others in the name of their religion. You seem to have singled out Christianity in this regard. What about Islam, to name just one?
You know, there is nothing so strange about sharing with others what you think is true. So Christians think their religion is the true religion, founded by God. Most religions do, too. I know a few Buddhists and Muslims who think I'm in error. Most people think their understanding of truth is the right one. They wouldn't believe it if they didn't. So do you. I think truth is universal true-it doesn't change from person to person. Understandings differ-truth is immutable. Just like gravity is true for everyone. Does that make me better than they? No, it means I have a greater responsibility . Does that mean I have some right to scorn, ridicule, or persecute those who don't believe? No. Have people done so, in the name of Christianity? You bet. Does that mean the ideas of Christianity are
bulls@*t ? No, because Christ specifically taught to the contrary. Does this mean a Christian will never do anything wrong? No, because we are fallible but we are supposed to pick up our cross and keep trying.
Why do you have an axe to grind about Christianity? Some sanctimonious, holier-than-thou must really be on your ass.
Pax
posted by
AnCatubh
on June 22, 2004 at 9:51 PM
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Ever hear the question "How can he claim he loves America, but clearly hates Americans?" That is how I feel about "organized" religions. Hypocrisy is the name of their game. Most Pagans ARE Pagans because of the freedom to worship their own Goddess/God within the context of their own beliefs.
posted by
Jaekman_RR
on June 22, 2004 at 7:51 PM
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Jaekman_RR
In would not say I made a giant step.
First off I would not consider Pagans to be part of an organized religion.
They follow no church and have no governing body. They just have beliefs and I have often said I can understand the need for beliefs.
If Pagans ever get organized and start trying to force their beliefs on others or start trying to say other sets of beliefs are horrible and start making up lies about other beliefs, then I will start to have a problem with them. Until that day I will openly defend the right for pagans to believe as they will and practice those beliefs, since they harm no one.
posted by
kooka_lives
on June 22, 2004 at 6:53 PM
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actually, I was thinking . . .
I'm sure there are stray cats in people's neighborhoods that they would like to offer as a sacrifice to any religion that wants them.
now we can start a cat/dog argument, can't we?
pets are a religion to some people.
:-)
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 22, 2004 at 6:21 AM
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What a giant step you made! It is rare to see someone from a different background defending and respecting not only someone else's religion, but of their way of life!
Kudos!
posted by
Jaekman_RR
on June 21, 2004 at 8:59 PM
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the purpose of propaganda
is to increase support for your side and against outsiders, wohever they may be.
propaganda by its nature is not truth.
all have used it in one way or another -- it was the Pope (Innocent?) who prodded the crusades by saying that infidels were in control of the holy city of Jerusalem -- when in fact, Moslems who were in control allowed religious freedom there.
Our present administration is using it to maintain support for their excursions into other countries all over the world. We don't see even the TIP of that iceburg.
For Christianity to maintain loyalty, other eligions have to be typified as totally wrong -- that it is only Christianity that can save the world.
this is an innocent type of propaganda, because virtually all of those who expouse this believe it wholeheartedly.
herein lies the crux of the conversation -- many Christians already believe in what they believe in (so it is with many religions). They are convinced of what they believe in. They are totally convinced, also, that anything else is wrong.
this is of course no limited to Christians -- or Christian belief -- many people believe in what they believe in -- whether religious or not -- they are convinced of what they feel they know and what they are doing.that's why your mom almost flunked religion class -- the Jesuit who taught the class firmly believed that what he was teaching was totally correct that and anything else, whether Baptist or Methodist or Presbyterian or otherwise, was totally incorrect, thus worthy only of a flunking grade in his class. You either totally agree or are consigned to outer darkness.
that's why such "pagan" rituals as your friend's wedding is outside Christian acceptance.
I said it before -- the prime directive for anyone should be "Do no harm."
As long as it doesn't hurt anybody . . .
As long as it builds up, heals, adds to the general good.
Yeshua said this in essence when the Pharisees asked him about why he heals on the Sabbath.
"Is it lawful to do good, or to do evil."
Paul listed "love, joy, peace (and other things) and said, "Against such there is no law."
That which is not against me is on my side.
There are times when Christian xenophobia makes evil of what is really good.
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 20, 2004 at 3:19 PM
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Odysseus
Yes, it is nice to see religions that came along before controlling a-holes decided to brainwash the masses. Religions where people have freedom and are taught to enjoy nature and be part of the whole nature and not hate or do harm or force others into their beliefs. The kind of religions that openly teach tolerance of others and love and respect and all that good stuff. Too bad Christianity had to come along and destroy all that.
Yes, those 'primitive' ideas do make so much more sense and seem much more worth following.
Although I do not think that was your point.
posted by
kooka_lives
on June 20, 2004 at 7:11 AM
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Fair enough...just wanted you to know I don't like being stereotyped. Glad
you see the distinction between the groups. Thanks.
posted by
Ariala
on June 20, 2004 at 7:11 AM
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Ariala
I have shown much more respect for Christians that I have seen Christians show for people who follow other beliefs. I know it is not all Christians who do this, which is one reasoN whY i made sure to make it clear that for the most part it is the Churches who do this and not the individuals. But just the fact that it is so easy for the Churches to get so many to believe in all the falsified propaganda shows a weakness in those followers.
And here you are trying to make it look like us Atheist are just being mean and going after Christians for no good reason. The day I find pagan, wicca or Buddhist literature that tries to spread lies about Christianity, then I will defend Christians against such things. So far I have found no such things. All the literature I have seen those groups come out with have been to defend themselves against he Christians lies without really putting down the Christians. I only wish that someday Christians in general can show that kind of respect to others.
posted by
kooka_lives
on June 20, 2004 at 7:05 AM
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One thing about paganism...
...is that it is a very primitive form of religion like, as Kooka says, the American Indian rituals. It represents religious thought prior to spiritual advancements that were made at a later time. Perhaps I should do a post on this? Kooka, what would I do without your inspiration.
posted by
telemachus
on June 20, 2004 at 6:23 AM
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Ditto
I don't understand how people think they know what happens after death. I think a lot of judgmental people are going to get a huge surprise when they die. The easiest thing to do is sit your butt in a church pew on Sunday go to work on Monday and repeat word for word what you were told. It makes you look good. I've seen some of the nastiest behavior come from people who are in church every Sunday.
posted by
Taffy000
on June 19, 2004 at 11:46 PM
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michelle, I understand what you're saying, but the fact remains that TRUE
Christianity is based on a God of love. If it isn't out of love, I'm sorry, it's just not real Christianity.
posted by
Ariala
on June 19, 2004 at 9:48 PM
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Ariala, it's the type of people who kooka talks about that cause so many problems in this world. Many of the bloodiest battles have been fought in the name of Christianity. Look at this war right now. Kooka isn't disrespecting Christians or Christianity, but he questions them and their beliefs and points out major fallacies.
Kooka, your posts are very intelligent, and don't seek to harm anyone. Your goal is to educate and bring to light ideas and actions that are crooked and cause pain.. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's very necessary.
posted by
michellerenee143
on June 19, 2004 at 9:44 PM
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Not all Christians put down these other religions, and atheists should
try to respect Christians for a change.
posted by
Ariala
on June 19, 2004 at 9:21 PM
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