Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
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teylnor, check out what the statistics are on pedophiles in other religions
besides Catholicism.
posted by
AnCatubh
on June 10, 2004 at 1:21 AM
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Actually, I have to give credit where credit is due.
Although the men who pursued me romantically were no more virtuous as church-goers than any other men, the other people in the church were the best people I have known in the world.
I think the best people were already married, had a sense of responsibility toward others that kept its selfish motives in check, and were kind, reaching out a hand of friendship and making you always feel welcome as a newcomer.
This I have usually only experienced in church groups.
posted by
TARZANA
on June 6, 2004 at 8:32 AM
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Myself, I have a tricky relationship with religion. I don't like organized religion at all, I view it as controlling, manipulating and vile, used mostly by men so they can control others, and hide their own crimes. Harsh, I know, but I look at Christianity, and get ill. Especially at the recent scandals of the Catholic church. Now, I know that those who participated in the coverups and did the crimes are a very small portion of the population, and that most are fairly decent sorts. But it just makes me ill. Not that all religions are perfect, I don't think any of them are, but there are some basic elements at the core of them that if most people thought hard about and tried to apply, it would surely be an easier world to live in. Interesting points that you raised here.
posted by
telynor
on June 6, 2004 at 7:13 AM
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kooka_lives --- I know exactly where my non-beliefs came from
they were instilled in me by the biggest group of sickos and sexual deviants man has ever seen under one roof. While I was trapped in an mission school set up entirely to destroy the Native American's way of life but it was for their own good dontcha know ? I can even remember the specific moment I rejected organized religion and other's perspective of what God is and what they think he should be. It was while I was taking a beating for asking questions as a schoolboy by an enraged nun. The questions were pesky things like " is excorcism for real ? A talking serpant ? A man living for 900 years ? A woman turning to salt ? " you know.
I fully realize and conceed that organized religion cannot be judged entirely by the actions of pedophile priests and overzealous sicko nuns. Nor should any group be judged by or generalized by it's lowest common denominator. But somehow, when I see some of the fervant defense of people's personal beliefs with a total lack of respect for other's views while they know nothing else and the vicious personal attacks people impose on each other in the name of their religions. I can't help but recognize or at least see some of the same negative features in these people that I saw in those nuns and priests so many years ago. People arguing over who's set of myths, superstitions and perspectives drawn from their narrow exposure to these fairy tales are right. As a child I rejected this mindset because I wanted to be nothing like them. As an adult I reject this mindset because I want to be nothing like them but somehow they want me and even you for that matter to be like them.
And the funniest part about it is that people like you and I who are looking for answers seem to understand the underlying message that religion is supposed to expouse better than most of them. To get back on topic in the search for some of those answers I made a point of studying as much as I could about other religions.
posted by
gomedome
on June 3, 2004 at 10:05 PM
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EMERGENCY CORRECTION TO PREVIOUS COMMENT
I do not hold literally, repeat DO NOT hold literally to the B.C.P. (Book of Common Prayer).
That's what I meant to say; otherwise the context would be confusing, convoluted, inconsequential and not at all consecrateable.
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 3, 2004 at 2:24 PM
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convert to hydrogen power -- it's cheap
take water -- electrolysis to separate hydrogen and oxygen, run the two gasses through different tubes to the combustion chamber then unite the two with whatever it takes to cause combustion and we get a spark and really high energy and water which then goes back to electrolysis and the cycle repeates itself.
on the other hand, don't try to convert people.
inform them
it's their decision where they go with the information they receive.
me? I think I'm fortunate (she's a good goddess, thank her) in that I was never grounded in a particular religion (yet attended the usual Sunday schools (various) and vacation bible schools (various) so that I could become informed without previous teaching interfering.
any traditional Christianity that I was anywhere near exposed to was pretty superficial -- just the church where someone invited me.
I became more involved in an out-of-the-way sect, Radio Church of God (changed its name to Worldwide Church of God), when I began reading their tracts. What we had here was someone using a more logical train of thought than I had seen before. It wasn't "it is, so it must be"; rather, it was "We must prove these things by the Bible."
The sect grew from the Adventist movement, with expectations of the Second Coming of Christ and observing Jewish Holy Days because the Easter/Christmas traditions are not found in the Bible and were incorporated into the early Church from pagan festivals so that the pagans might be converted (a tradition of conversion which continues to this day).
I discovered inconsistencies between what this sect said and certain passages in the New Testament especially and left.
Again, we migrated to different churches until we settled in an Episcopal Church that was far from traditional.
What I have stated in my beliefs so far and my Episcopal affiliation might seem rather contradictory until you understand that one aspect of my belief is that all belief is valid. Paul's statement that "one esteems one day above all others wihle one esteems all days alike" and that each's belief is valid because it is "in the Lord" colors my understanding of this.
While I do hold literally to the statements made in the B.C.P., I see their validity to the worshipper. I can depart from the literal and apply metaphor to what is said.
Because of being able to separate myself from the "tradition of my elders", I think I have been given the opportunity to discover more than I would have otherwise. Because of the grounding of the WCG, I have developed an inquiring mind and I research subjects rather than accept any previous statements.
I've developed a belief system of my in this manner.
Now if someone will develop a hydrogen propelled vehicle.
posted by
Xeno-x
on June 3, 2004 at 6:34 AM
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kooka,
I saw that "discussion" you and AMDG had. One of the best points, as expected, went unanswered. You said something along the lines of "A Christian Valedictorian can talk about God in their speech, but a Satanic Valedictorian can't." No mention of it was made again. What you got was a spelling lesson and a line like "you've made so many errors I got no time to go into them all." So she didn't even tackle one.
You got spun, man. I figure there's no way to convert most peoples' religious or political beliefs, yet I continue to try. Apparently so do you. Let's not stop.
Max Power
posted by
Max_Power
on June 2, 2004 at 11:36 PM
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I don't belittle it simply because it was part of my childhood.
To say it must be "other" before it can have real value is belittling, in my view. I have made strong attempts to understand and connect with the "other" in things, beliefs, ideas, experiences. I was raised by two parents who call Jesus their savior. This is where the spiritual journey began for me. I don't apologize for it. I was never told what I had to believe. I was always encouraged to ask questions, which is why I am a Christian who has no problem believing, for example, that a fifth generation hindu monk can be as saved as anyone else, as long as the heart issue is taken care of between he and God. I don't pretend conversion to my experience is necessary for anyone else. I believe, quite literally, that God is willing to win each soul for himself, one person at a time.
Christians claim an infinite God, yet often proclaim a finite, exclusivist truth which leads to bitterness toward Christianity (kind of like the bitterness you sometimes show in your posts, Kooka), and I know we are partly to blame for that.
Christians like to claim that each relationship with God is personal and unique, but as soon as someone's relationship begins to look different from recognized "Christianity" we reach into our pockets for throwing stones.
I believe it is wrong to judge another's relationship with God unless it is poised to cause us direct harm and we have no choice but to preserve ourselves. And even then we can do the preserving without doing too much judging.
If each faith journey is personal, then there is no reason for me to discredit my own simply because it started somewhere.
posted by
Fat_Guy
on June 2, 2004 at 10:18 PM
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belief
I never studied the Bible closely. what i got was at sunday masses and CCD classes until i was twelve. I'm still more inclined to believe my favorite albums, spiritual message or not, than anything else. Mostly it's a hodge-podge, a postmodernist potpourri, but ultimately, you can't know for sure. tg
posted by
tbgroucho
on June 2, 2004 at 9:03 PM
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Yeah, yeah
It read wrong to me as well, but I didn't care to fix it at the time.
It is fixed now however, so no one but you will know of my small grammatical mistake. Well, they will now know due to the comments, but they will not know what it was.
posted by
kooka_lives
on June 2, 2004 at 6:21 PM
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Your title should read, "Where do your beliefs come from?"
Mine come from studying many faiths, non-faiths, the occult, science and life experiences.
posted by
Ariala
on June 2, 2004 at 6:14 PM
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