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we are working toward something here
Basically I tink that every one of us agrees that there has to be order to one's life.
One has to follow a basic philosophy and place order of some sort in one's life or else that life is chaotic and counterproductive.
There are certain precepts that help each of us to have that order. They are universal precepts.
If we were to put this into metaphor, I guess it would be like a garden as opposed to a patch of wild prairie (although the prairie does have its own order) -- in for the garden to be successful the various species of plant have to be planted in a certain fashion -- the more they are planted in line with that fashion, the more successful the results -- the less they are planted like that, the less successful.
Then there is the order placed upon us by the Law, by liturgy, by religious stricture -- this can be like a trellis or other structure on which the plant is placed and molded. It looks beautiful, but it is a structure that is unnatural to the plant. I'm thinking of Japanese "Haiku" ??? is that the term? -- where trees are placed in a limited environment and their growth stunted so that a hundred year old tree that naturally would be a huge thing is reduced to a foot tall.
It is a beautiful thing, but it is an artificial beauty.I lost my train of thought.
If we look at the Natural Universe, we do not find a static Universe, where what we perceive as order is permanent. As I say, we are only receiving a glimpse of an infinitesimal section in an infinitesimal period of time, and that, to our finite senses, appears to be Order.
We want, we need order, in order for our psyches to survive.
Evolution demands that in order to survive, one must adapt to change.
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 3, 2004 at 6:58 AM
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Just look, this is simple.
Modification of your individuality into the universal concept of goodness transforms you into a more orderly being, and ultimately, into oneness with God. Resistance to this modification amounts to self-inflating ego in the belief that you are better in your personal diversity. Resistance is, in affect, saying that you think you are as good as God.
posted by
telemachus
on April 29, 2004 at 10:24 AM
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belief -- faith -- is what keeps us alive.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 29, 2004 at 7:52 AM
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order and chaos cannot work together
they are not allies and they together cannot produce life. They repel each other. Like night and day. I beleive in absolutes and fundamentals. I do not beleive in the intermingling of opposing forces to create a higher force or a more interesting experience. Now this is confined to the laws of nature and physics, not neccessarily human beings in relationships.
posted by
cantey
on April 29, 2004 at 6:51 AM
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ORDER, PLEASE
ham and eggs with whole wheat toast.
orange juice and coffee
and please, would you also giveme water.
Thank you.
That's an order.
Chaos is what the Universe is also --
An order of sorts can be seen in the universe, sure, but chaotic events are what changes it.
This is a virtual rule (order? - lawgiver? - or maybe just a simple feature of the Universe?) - that things go along in a relatively predictable manner for a period of time (a relative term created by humans) then a chaotic event occurs that causes change.
The singularity that is thought to have existed "in the beginning" ended with the chaos of the Big Bang. Stars that formed then exploded to form more stars, possibly a succession of such explosions and formations to produce our sun and dozens of other similar stars within 28 light years of us, and it had to be from one parent star.
Life on Earth could not have evolved without the threat of Death and Live's will to survive (chaos interrupting "order").
Humans want order, yet there really is none -- there is, however, constant change.
The Great Prophets: Moses, Buddha, Yeshua, Mohammed, and anyone else you can name (careful who you do name though) upset the perceived order of their cultural time (remember that followers of The Way in the First Century C.E. were accused of "turning the world upside down"?)
Let's go back ot those who perceive order -- all you have to do is find it -- in anything that you can call order is always an element of chaos -- nothing remains the same.
Let's do the blind men and the elephant: six blind men encountered six different parts of the elephant. They perceived the elephant as being like six different things: rope, snake, tree, leaf, wall, spear. We perceive only a part of the Universe and during a lmited period of time.
I have a friend who tells me about the Chaos in mathematics -- chaos in mathematics? -- isn't that a true oxymoron? It's true -- and I can't explain it at all -- only a mathematician can -- up to a certain number (a really big one) mathematics is orderly and predictable; then it becomes chaotic and unpredictable; then it reverts to order again -- at least that's what I thought he said -- only thing, it took him an hour to explain it.
Good also is like order -- defined by the user. Paul said, "There is none good". Good arises from a set of rules -- The Law. Check Romans 6 to see where the Law is now.
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is The Law.
We want bo define "Good" and "Evil" so that we can feel comfortable and good when we do the "good" and sometimes castigate those who do "evil"
However, we are all in the same boat so why don't we recognize that?
There are two Great Commandments on which hang all the Law and the Prophets, and I John 4:20 sort of indicates that we keep the first Great Commandment by keeping the second.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 29, 2004 at 5:56 AM
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This part of this post-
So everyone should accept a little chaos in their lives from time to time, it make life all the more worth living.
Is basically true, without change we stagnate and stop growing. Chaos is a little extreme of a word to describe the process I am refering to.
posted by
Budmannomore
on April 29, 2004 at 4:13 AM
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So to sum up, your argument is:
- that Jesus, sides with Chaos; God represents order? So are you saying that Jesus sides against what Jesus represents??? (oh, if I believe that Jesus is God...)
- that one needs to accept chaos in one's life to be complete and whole? So are you saying that one must accept utter confusion and/or chaotic behavior in one's life? Or is it that one should accept formless matter supposed to exist before creation in one's life?
Also: How about you define "EVIL" for me?
posted by
Gheeghee
on April 28, 2004 at 10:52 PM
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How are you defining "perfect?" My dictionary (The Oxford Encyclopedic English Dictionary) lists ten definitions for the word (thirteen if you count the subdivided definitions). I choose the first two definitions: 1. complete; not deficient 2. a. faultless b. blameless in morals or behaviour. No one in their right mind would think that Hitler, a mass murderer and hate monger, was "faultless" or "blameless in morals or behaviour." The man was a mass murderer.
How are you defining "chaos?" My dictionary lists two definitions: 1. a. utter confusion b. chaotic behaviour 2. the formless matter supposed to have existed before the creation of the universe. Can anyone at all think Hitler causing anything but utter confusion? The man brainwashed his own countrymen to turn their backs on their neighbors and have them killed. That is not order, that is insanity.
posted by
Gheeghee
on April 28, 2004 at 10:38 PM
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