Go to The Reverend Kooka Speaks About Religious Bulls#!t
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Kooka
Well I agree for the most part, but we must be careful not lose the core benefits of religion (the goodness) in the process of trying to break the external holds that fanatics have over people. If people are informed that they should avoid rash external doctrines and look for God within their good conscious, the same goal can be accomplished without aborting my beloved God.
posted by
telemachus
on April 24, 2004 at 12:05 PM
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shawn
Religion had a use, btu that has been weakening for some centuries now. More and more we see proof of this in, just look at the Middle East. religion is causing too many problems because it is not a tool to get people on the right track, but a tool for control. We need to teach people that they matter and that they are strong and that they have all the power they need ot be happy and do good, then they can look to themselves to make things better and not to some religious leader who is only trying to use them. WHen you teach them that a 'God' is where they need to draw strength from, then they go looking for someone who can get them 'closer to God' and they will be less likely to see through any scam. Even if they do believe in God, they still need to have enough faith in themselves that they can question religious leaders when they see that what they are being told is wrong, but this rarely happens because they are not taught to be an individual, but rather part of a heard.
I am saying that people need to have faith in themselves, this can go along with faith in God or not. But if a person does not believe in themselves, then there is not point in having faith in anything. So when one puts God first, it weakens them being able to see themselves as important. if one believes in God, then they need ot put God separate from themselves and their loved one in order to get a better sense if priority there
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 24, 2004 at 7:29 AM
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Westwend (on hell)
It may be O.K. to upset the societal concept of things if you have a better solution to portray, but not if you are going to leave a vacuum of disorder and chaos in your wake.
posted by
telemachus
on April 24, 2004 at 5:37 AM
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Kooka
Increasingly, it seems that we are in agreement regarding the recognition of the good within and the need for expanding it to the greatest extent possible. The issue I have at this juncture is quite simple. That is, why should you attack and seek to destroy a religious mechanism that has helped millions of people expand the good within unless you have an alternative for them? It seems that you would slay their God and then leave them whimpering in the street. It is an undeniable fact that the world’s religions are the best existing source for perpetuating the good and right action on a broad scale. Until you can suggest an alternative for these religions, I would suggest that you are doing more harm than good by trying to dismantle them.
posted by
telemachus
on April 24, 2004 at 5:34 AM
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westwend
Good point
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 23, 2004 at 10:59 AM
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shawn
I already do what you keep claiming I am not doing. I try to get other to do good. I will raise my boys to do good. But that has nothing to do with the idea of questioning religion. You problem has been and always will be that my basic beliefs have nothing to do with your God, which to you is the end all and be all of how one should live. I could have the exact same basic values, but you will always find fault in my ideas because they do not follow the same path as yours. To you it is all the beliefs of God and Jesus that matters, not how you live your life.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 23, 2004 at 10:59 AM
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shawnbrantley
societal concept of things?
of which society are we speaking?
Of which society in the U.S. are we speaking?
There are myriad societies in the world -- multitudes in the U.S.
Do you think it's wrong to upset the societal concept of things?
Jesus did.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 23, 2004 at 7:05 AM
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speaking of Neitsche
It's an old joke -- a bad one -- but I can't help it.
"To be is to do." - Neitsche
"To do is to be." - Sartre
"Do be do be do." - Sinatra
Sorry for the levity on such a serious topic.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 23, 2004 at 7:02 AM
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Kooka
Your confusion centers on the fact that you have a mission to destroy the societal concept of things, which is precisely why I instruct you to seek the good within yourself. Your post here confirms your belief that you innately understand what is good. Your awakening will come when you learn to focus on that good (which you have said that you know) and then expand that good in yourself and in others.
posted by
telemachus
on April 22, 2004 at 8:10 PM
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why am I doing this?
I don't know -- maybe its because I feel the need to write.
Many religions have in common the "Golden Rule", "Treat others as you would have them treat you." (in effect). They even say that this is the ultimate precept and that other parts of the religion aren't as important.
The Jewish Talmuc states the GR, then says, "This go learn. All else is but commentary."
I believe Life is the process of learning how the treat other people the best you can. And we are probably not 50% successful in this. So we continue to try to learn, with and without success and we sometimes don't even try -- that's usually more successful.
We do what we think is right under certain circumstances, then we discover that it's not all that right and we look back at it and wish we could do it all over again -- but its too late.
If we were to condemn ourselves for every wrong action, we would have that Hell that we wish on others.
Yet we already have that Hell right here -- our Heaven too.
We just go on as best we can.
We can't do differently.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 22, 2004 at 11:39 AM
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No I have not
I'll have to add him that to my need to read list, and that list gets longer everyday it seems.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 22, 2004 at 11:35 AM
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Surely, you've read Nietzsche
If not, I would highly recommend it. This was one of the major themes in his writing. In fact, one of his books, Beyond Good and Evil, focuses almost entirely on this notion of the higher man elevating himself above society's labels of good and evil. Eventually, he thought, these words would have no more meaning. Thoughtful post.
posted by
agentsmith
on April 22, 2004 at 11:31 AM
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