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Kooka
Please excuse my last comment, I see that you stated a perception of God already. I initially thought that was written by JollyJeff. The type of belief you mention is known generally as Pantheism. Well, if you really believe that we are a part of God like atoms are a part of us, you can probably easily buy into the fact that the notion of good within you is a catalyst for creating action, in this case “right action”. Much as enzymes or chemicals create events within the human body, so your course of right action moves you in the path of goodness. Resistance creates disorder, discord, sickness, evil and chaos. You assert that you are a part of God and I assert that the notion of good within you is God and so disagreement is irrelevant. The first important thing here is (1) existence, which we have covered and (2) Right Action, which is mentioned above. My point is that by logically choosing to move in accordance with the goodness and right action you expand your consciousness and discernment of God. Stepping away from any type of doctrine or specific theology, it seems that we are perhaps in agreement at this point.
posted by
telemachus
on April 1, 2004 at 5:19 PM
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Kooka
O.K., so you cannot see "The God of the Bible". What type of God can you envision?
posted by
telemachus
on April 1, 2004 at 5:03 PM
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jollyjeff
Thank you.
I at some level I do think there is some kind of higher power, but it is not anything like what the Christians want us to believe. It does not need a bunch of people worshipping it and it does not care. We are part of it like atoms are part of us. And I am not going to give my life to following it.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 1, 2004 at 4:46 PM
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shawn
Get over yourself here.
I do most of what you seem to think I need to do. I just can not see the GOD OF THE BIBLE being part of that.
And yes, we are here by coincidence, I have no doubt of that at all.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 1, 2004 at 4:42 PM
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You sound like you know exactly
who you are and what you believe which is great. I don't believe in what Christians call God either, but since I became a Religious Scientist, I developed a different idea of God which I can wholeheartedly embrance. We each have to do what's best for us.
Jeff
posted by
jollyjeff
on April 1, 2004 at 4:38 PM
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Kooka - You must try harder to discern and forget your foregone conclusion.
Kooka – You have yet to reach perfection. Your migration through the universe is not of your own accord, nor is it the result of some random occurrence. You are being molded by each and every action and occurrence in your life. Contemplate! Observe! Understand. Put your ear to the wind. Don’t let your vision be obscured by prideful denial. Can you honestly believe that you are interacting with me in this sliver of breathable air between the earth and the upper atmosphere by mere coincidence! Look at the marvelous creation all around you and its interrelatedness. Read historical accounts of the world and perceive the logical accumulation. Do not ignore the workings of the divine. You will perceive! It may not be today, or tomorrow, or even this year, but I can tell that you are in route. My prayers are with you.
posted by
telemachus
on April 1, 2004 at 12:56 PM
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shawn
I already have 'genuine concern for others and a motivation to bring goodness out of fellow human beings.' And as with everything in my life, it has nothing to do with God. It has to do with the knowledge that I wish to leave the world a better place and will do all in my power to make it so. This is not for me in anyway, but for the future. I know I only have a short time to make an impact, but if I make as great an impact as I can then I know I have helped the world.
posted by
kooka_lives
on April 1, 2004 at 11:42 AM
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Proponent For Right Action
Kooka - You are, admittedly, a proponent for "right action". That is, you state that you believe in perpetuating “good” in your life. Your conflict with me seems to be in whether or not we should attribute our ability to “do good” to ourselves or to God. Certainly, we can’t take credit for our existence, as it has occurred without our own doing. Within our existence is our motivation to “do good”. From where does it come? That spark is the seed of God. If you continue to cultivate the spark, it will eventually become a larger flame through which you will see God. I think, for you, that this realization will come when your course of right action expands into a genuine concern for others and a motivation to bring goodness out of fellow human beings. When you observe that what seems so easy for you (perhaps due only to present circumstance) is indeed quite difficult for others, your discernment will become enhanced. I hope also that you will read and comment to “Spiritual Medicine” from time to time for additional motivation and insight.
posted by
telemachus
on April 1, 2004 at 11:08 AM
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Hi kooka_lives ---- I can relate to some of your responses to comments.
In my life I can honestly say that most of the verbal abuse I have received has come from intolerant believers. Even right here on Blogit I have received harrassing emails and insults from some supposedly spreading the word of God. Been banished from their heaven more times than I can count. But to reinforce one of your contentions. The notion of good and evil or right and wrong need not originate in religious dogma. An aware and thinking individual can decern for themselves what serves the greater good of society. One can develop a well tuned sense of propriety without ever opening the Bible. The majority of people however feel that being without religion equates to godlessness which in turn somehow equates to the inability to conduct one's self in an alltruistic manner. It is simply a prejudice when viewed in that light. Just one more negative drawn from religious agenda.
posted by
gomedome
on April 1, 2004 at 7:12 AM
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It's enough that you accept that others believe
Hey Kooka
I believe in God but don't do the whole church bible thing. I know there is something more because I know. Sometimes I feel inadequate because I can't quote verse or anything else but I guess that he or she is giving me what I need when I need it. Like you I have a beautiful life, at least you accept your friends choices, unlike you, I thank God (whoever and wherever he or she are) for all the beauty and blesses around me. There's loads of bad stuff I don't understand the whole idea of letting your son die to save others who you could save, doesn't really wash with me, I don't really get it all but I know someone is out there so I'm willing to trust to my heart. I agree with the other comment about you not needing to call and I'm sure that when you do (because aren't we here to learn something?) they'll be a hand to hold you.
posted by
Breoc
on April 1, 2004 at 5:54 AM
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Hey Kooka
I just laughed when I read this in your blog...
"There was just something in the way he debated that made it clear most of what he was saying had been feed to him by others. He was being used. Someone put it all in his head and so he was able to spit it back out."
I'm happy for you that you feel fulfilled hear on earth and things are going ok for you. But sometimes when people get into enough trouble and hurt in their lives and everything seems to be going badly for them, and they're at their wits end, they tend to humbly admit they need help. That is when God enters and grants them strength. It happened for me after going through some very troubling years. I could relay my story to you in detail, but you seem to have your mind made up, so I'll not talk to a hardened heart as I'm not Moses.
I am a believer, not because I was talked into it, but because I feel his presence and know I can turn to him in times of trouble and pray for answers to problems. More often than not, God grants me the wisdom I need because I asked him with an open heart and mind.
Someday you may also need him in your time of trouble, and even though you deny him now, he will not deny you if you humble yourself and seek his help.
Isa. 5:16-21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and clever in their own sight!
posted by
DEMSareEVIL
on March 31, 2004 at 11:18 PM
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shawn
It is that way of thinking that creates the problems that I really am against the most. A person who does right by the world and is all in all good does not need to have God in his/her life. By all logic it takes a stronger person to be able to be a good person without believing in God. I am a good person, not because I am trying to please some higher being or I hoping to gain the perfect afterlife. No, I am a good person because I know enough to be able to know that being a good person is what is best for all. I am very often insulted by ideas such as your that to be good one must except God in their life. This is simply not true. I know too many good people who are atheist and I would trust them farther than a lot of Christians I have known.
I do good because I know it is the right thing to do. In the end my only reward will be knowing that I did what was right in my life and that I am sure the world will be a better place for what I have done. I need no God to tell me this, only simple logic.
And also, the atheists I know are much truer to themselves than those who go and follow religion just because they want to play it safe. That alone should earn respect, yet it doesn't. People like you want everyone to at least play like they believe because it makes you feel better, while in reality so many are just going along for the ride without really believing. At least I have the self respect to know who I am and not lie to myself in order to play it safe.
posted by
kooka_lives
on March 31, 2004 at 8:50 PM
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Pursue The Good.
Kooka, I am posting some commentary entitled "Pursuing the Good" in my blog "Spiritual Medicine" shortly. I hope that you will read it. It will jump start your spiritual quest.
posted by
telemachus
on March 31, 2004 at 7:14 PM
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