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I do not fault you for being an intelligent, strong minded man
but you seem to find fault with those who willfully subordinate themselves to be instructed under the auspice of a higher authority than themselves be it a pastor or whoever. You do not have all the answers. That is what the scripture means when it says:
THe meek shall inherit the earth. The word meek there is the greek word
praus which means: pliable, or to be teachable. The opposite of stiffnecked and rebellious, but by no means less intelligent. If anything, more intelligent because I am not resistant to absorb info and interpretation from multiple sources other than my own brain which allows me to form a multiplex intelligence. Therefore I ' inherit the earth' because the earth, as you know, is inhabited by more than just yourself. This does not apply to just a church setting, by the way. I learn from all people. But it is all initiated from an attitude of: I KNOW NOTHING.
posted by
cantey
on March 21, 2004 at 9:57 PM
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Okay then
So you admit that 75% of what you are saying came form others. Now was that before you got your 25 % on your own? Most likely. I can honestly say that most of my beliefs I did get on my own. I did not have anyone sitting there telling me how to think. I looked at religion and saw the flaws. i started to talk about it with others and the more I talked the more I saw the flaws. In fact it was my born again friend who really got me thinking the most when he tried to convert me. The more he told me about his beliefs, the more I said 'This is not right' and started to figure it all out for my self. Since then I have studied a lot of what others have said and taken some of that into my own beliefs.
posted by
kooka_lives
on March 21, 2004 at 5:45 PM
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! would say about 75% of it came from hearing other men teach
the other 25% I got on my own.
posted by
cantey
on March 21, 2004 at 9:11 AM
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cantey
Once more this goes into the idea that it does not matter what you do with your life, all that matter is that you believe. This is the bottom line that I have the biggest problem with. You could live a very clean and moral life, never harming another person, never stealing, never doing anything wrong, yet in the end you are damned all because you did not believe in God. Yet in the same token, you can go out and kill and do great evils, but if you suddenly decide to follow God you will be saved and all will be forgiven. That is not fair, that is not justice and that is not the work of a loving father.
I know for a fact that is right here and now I was to be judge on what I have done with my life and how I have lived my life, I would be judged a good person. I have openly admitted I have made mistakes in my past, but that was in my youth. As and adult I have led a very moral life. I know of adults who follow God who really can not say the same thing. yet by your standards they will be judge higher than me all because they believe and I do not. And so nothing you do in life really matters, all you have to do is believe.
And the Church is 100% organized religion. The Bible is just a tool for organized religions to have more control. Here is a simple question for you, did you read the Bible and decided it was telling you this or did your church or someone from your church tell it that is what it said?
posted by
kooka_lives
on March 21, 2004 at 8:15 AM
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Atheists in there rejection of God
are now following Satan. Its true. Satan IS REAL ( if you would like for me to expound more on the origin of Satan and his history I will be glad to do so) and a deceiver and a conterfeiter( is that spelled right?) and he wuold love for you to think you are OK. I know you dont believe this but I am going to put all the cards on the table. Atheists in their rejection of the bible as absolute authority put themselves in a dangerous position by practicing moral relativism, even though we allknow instinctivley the difference between right and wrong , without the bible providing a moral compass and an anchor for you in a moment of heated emotion or complex emotion and we are faced with a decision you need that anchor to guide you to a haven of safety away from the folly of vigillante justice that could lead to your demise. This is an extreme example of course but it can be applied to a lower scale. So yes you do need the bible to root your moral decision making apparatus into the rock and to regulate our emotions and there ability to influence decisions that could affect the rest of our lives and the lives of our family. Just because a bunch of wackjobs in the name of religion and the bible do a bunch of stupid stuff does not mean the bible is inherently bad. Jesus gave 2 commandments that fulfill all of the laws of the old yestament:
7 Jesus said to him, ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
I see know violence in this. Are you intellectually honest enough to admit the same thing?
And most emphatically: NO the Church is not organizrd religion:
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. The Body is to rule Satan and Subdue him just like God commanded Adam in the Garden of Eden for the remainder of this age.
Organized religion is a man made abomination that has nothing to do with Gods intention or design ( I am speaking of the CATHOLIC CHURH)
Peace Kooka
posted by
cantey
on March 20, 2004 at 10:39 PM
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cantey
you are saying that an atheist is against God, and you are saying that to be against God is to follow the path of evil. If I am somehow misreading that in your comment, please tell me what you were trying to say instead. I will admit I could be placing some of the generic attitude I get from most Christians into this. But you are saying that the Bible is suppose to teach us what is right and wrong and that it is not good for us to decides these things for ourselves. And I never said you were defending the ideas of murder, just that your statement about how the Bible wants people to focus on the peaceful aspect seems off. Those who claim to follow the Bible are often very violent and disturbed, and cause more harm than good.
Oh, and the Church is organized religion.
And yes Toolewritergirl, I am an atheist. I do not believe in God. Instead I believe in a more universal idea of everything being part of a greater whole. While God and CHurch are different things, although they are often confused, I have problems with both of them. Now I can except people believing in God as long as they are not following church, but I do not believe in God at all. The problem is it doe become hard to break the two things apart and so to show the faults of church, I must also show the faults of God.
posted by
kooka_lives
on March 20, 2004 at 9:33 PM
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By the way this response does not represent the belief of Kooka Lives
it is my ( cantey ) 's exclusive response.
posted by
cantey
on March 20, 2004 at 8:50 PM
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Toogle
I see what you mean, but the Church is the Body of Christ, the are inseperable fron each other, God oand His Bodin the earth to represent physically by an assembly of believers the charectar and nature of Jesus, so that many might come to Him.. When you say the Church I assume you are talking about organized religion, which is not necessarily the church.
posted by
cantey
on March 20, 2004 at 8:46 PM
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I disagree
I've never seen anything in the Bible that is particularly restrictive. Don't murder, Don't steal. I can handle those things just fine. The problem comes in when you get a lot of preachers trying to use the Bible to beat people over the head and force them to live by that one person's interpretation of the book.
By the way, ARE you an athiest? I've always seen God and Church as too entirely different things.
posted by
TooeleWriterGal
on March 20, 2004 at 8:36 PM
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I do not believe that murder is a means of solvinf religious differences. W
hat could possibly be more insane? and I never said atheists are evil. I said they are rebellious at heart. YOu are the one that made the connecton of rebel to evil.
posted by
cantey
on March 20, 2004 at 8:05 PM
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