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Karmic justice misses nothing,  that is for sure.  It is a good back-up system for what I have in mind,  which is what I call imperative justice.  For reasons you mention  (lack of obtainable evidence)  and other reasons,  imperative justice will not be possilbe in all cases,  and karma takes up the slack nicely. 

posted by GoldenMean on May 27, 2017 at 9:16 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Anib

I fully agree that justice should be swift and an exemplary deterrent for other criminally-oriented minds, but there are numerous occasions when a criminal whom everybody knows is the one, go scot-free for want of evidences, often so, their entire lives. What happens then? The concept of another life comes in hare. Man-made laws become ineffective, in such cases, and therefore flawed. Karma, on the other hand, doesn't let this situation happen, under any circumstances, that is why you will remember that in my earlier post or comment I had specifically mentioned 'sans human intervention', and that 'Nature does not let anything hang in balance'. We will discuss this further. Cheers 

 

posted by anibanerjee on May 27, 2017 at 4:33 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Anib

I am sure that your next blog is going to be interesting and well-argued. I wished to reply to your question as to whether you could be classified in the category of the Indian caste system, and that your temperament takes you equally in three directions. I found this interesting and to be discussed. And, by all means differ from my way of thinking, that gives room for going into the depths of any subject. Why not? Cheers

i will now think of the 'gestation period' of Karma, and see if I can write something worthwhile. And thank you for keeping me busy in thoughts. 

posted by anibanerjee on May 26, 2017 at 10:48 PM | link to this | reply

Anib

I have had more time to read your karma essay,  and to enjoy it,  for you write so well.  Here is a passage of concern to me: "We can see from common experience that certain actions bear fruit immediately, others may take ages. The law of 'justice delayed is justice denied' does not operate on the cosmic plane."

I must beg to differ.  I think our experience here on Earth shows that the SOONER that we bear the consequences of our actions (good or bad),  the BETTER.  For example,  the longer a hardened criminal stays free and unpunished,  the more crimes they can commit,  the more lives they can ruin.  Justice delayed means more victims.  

I think karma is an imperfect and flawed system,  that could be improved upon,  if our cosmic superiors really wanted to.  For some reason,  they either cannot or will not improve it.  They seem to have built up the various religions that believe in karma,  to justify it in our minds,  to keep us from questioning it.  Or those religions have just perpetuated the belief in karma,  from thousands of years ago,  when something better may have been introduced under their very noses!  My next blog will be about that.  Cheers

posted by GoldenMean on May 26, 2017 at 7:52 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Re: kabu

Glad you find them so, ma'am Kabu.

posted by anibanerjee on May 24, 2017 at 6:38 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Thanks Annice

posted by anibanerjee on May 24, 2017 at 6:37 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Presta sister

Yes, it is so. The original source from where the Banerjee descended can be traced  back to Shandilya muni. Then there are Chatterjees, Mukherjees, Gangulys, who are descendants of other sages. They together are considered the top class brahmins.  Nowadays it has remained merely for the purposes of marriages. A brahmin cannot marry a Kayastha or kshatrya or Vaishya and the like. But that too is waning.

posted by anibanerjee on May 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: kabu

Oh very generous portions thank you.

posted by Kabu on May 24, 2017 at 6:02 PM | link to this | reply

wow! that's a lot. thanks for sharing

posted by Annicita on May 24, 2017 at 2:03 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Aba brother

Oh, my goodness! You are descended from Shandilya! Amazing! Yes, it makes sense and you are so humble. That's wonderful. Hope the exam checking goes easily.

posted by RPresta on May 23, 2017 at 11:35 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Anib, are we having fun yet?

Pls correct the typos. I am myself a brahmin by birth, denoted by the surname Banerjee, the descendant of the revered sage Shandilya. I'll be back some time later after checking the examination papers, a backlog is to be tackled first.

posted by anibanerjee on May 23, 2017 at 9:49 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Anib, are we having fun yet?

Of course we are, because there is no one-up-man-ship here. Manipulation for the good is laudable, as for example, in the cas of Jesus, Gandhi and the like, not Stalin,Trotsky, who used others for their own good. I am happy I could throw light on the caste system and the logic behind that arrangement - the smooth functioning of any society. Any act that translates for universal good frees one from the secondary retributory action. There are more dimensions other than karma, many paths, all singlepointedly aimed for liberation which comes under the purview of Dharma ( religion) and then even religion has to be discarded, because it was only a vehile to reach you youe destination. As for identifying yourself with which of the Hindu caste system you might be fit for, I'll have to give another article on the three modes of action in Nature, namely Sattwa guns, Rajo Guna and Tamo Guna which are essential temperament directors in humans. Then again, there is no room for being denied or shunned, discarded. As they say, the biggest room in the world is room for improvement. Hindus find place for one and all. Many Thanks. 

 

 

posted by anibanerjee on May 23, 2017 at 9:42 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Aba dear brother

My dear Presta sis, what a rejuvenating comment in praise, which makes my efforts most satisfying. You are kind and your appreciation means much to me. I too, enjoyed writing this piece, because in none of my previous posts did I have to edit so much. Secondly, I had to be careful because GoldenMean is one who can always catch you on the wrong foot. But his queries are thought-provoking and intelligent. T.Y. once again. 

posted by anibanerjee on May 23, 2017 at 9:09 PM | link to this | reply

Anib, are we having fun yet?

We are touching upon many subjects here,  which could be described as trying to separate a can full of worms,  or trying to herd a flock of cats.  But it is a delightful endeavour,  and I thank you for walking this path with me.  I am still working on my main comment. 

But as to humans being manipulators,  that is not necessarily a bad thing.  For myself,  I do not mind being manipulated,  if it is for my own good.  This may be part of the karmic system,  although I doubt it.  But I would say that all influential humans are manipulators,  all leaders are manipulators,  and our cosmic superiors who want to influence us in one direction or another,  are also manipulators.  I would say that Jesus,  during his life on Earth,  was a manipulator,  in all the best ways.  By word and deed,  he convinced 12 men to drop everything,  leave their families,  and folllow him as disciples.  Later,  I will be linking Jesus to karma,  and show how he taught us to take the next step.  I may do this as a post in my blog.  

As for the caste system,  I do see the practicality of it,  in its original form as you describe.  Such a system is not inherently unjust.  I think it is very foolish to argue that everyone is equal (as modern liberals argue).  People have different talents,  in body,  mind,  and spirit,  and those talents can be grouped and categorized for efficiency.  This means that people can have different value,  in any given scenario or situation.  Who would you rather have operating on your heart.....  a doctor or a banker? 

But I must ask you,  can one person be a member of different castes at different times?  For myself,  I feel a strong attraction for three different castes.  First,  the philosopher class  (I don't know, maybe brahmin?),  from the time I was about 12 years old,  I studied different belief systems and began to question them.......  Second, the warrior class  (kshatriya), to test my convictions and my willingness to kill or die for them.......   third,  the class of skilled service or tradesmen,  to provide skilled service to others,  which seems to be missing from your list.

After  childhood,  I decided to be a warrior,  deflinitely an exclusive cadre of brave men and women,  who are willing to kill to defend their values and way of life,  who are also willing to die trying,  if that be their fate.  I learned to deliver swift death with many weapons,  with many tactics,  but Thank God,  I was never called or commanded to do so. 

Then,  tiring of the stress and danger of being a professional warrior,  I learned peaceful skills,  and settled upon land surveying as my profession,  to serve others with expertise concerning the measurement of their lands and houses. 

But through it all,  I clung to my first calling,  that of philosophy,  studying and writing as I could.  Philosophy,  I certainly think,  is the mother of religion and the father of politics,  for it embraces and explains them both,  as often-errant children.  But then,  philosophers themselves are often in great error,  and refuse to see it.  The arrogance of ignorance seems to be common to all castes and classes.

So where would I fit in, as a Hindu,  in the caste system you described?  If I were born into the shudra caste,  the uneducated menials,  would I be denied my three callings?  Would I be shunned by all three 'higher' groups?  It seems that I would be so denied and shunned.......  

 

 

posted by GoldenMean on May 23, 2017 at 9:02 PM | link to this | reply

Aba dear brother

It was such a pleasure to read your post, and I thank you. It's beautifully written and for me, just deep enough where I could use a second reading. :) I shall await your second post on this topic, dear Bhai. Well done, well told and much appreciated. 

posted by RPresta on May 23, 2017 at 6:57 PM | link to this | reply

Re: GM

Should have been 'I might.

posted by anibanerjee on May 23, 2017 at 7:45 AM | link to this | reply

GM

One thing I must add, Karl Marx, Trotsky or Mohammed, were, after all, humans, and as humans, manipulators. I have clarified my stand that the karma philosophy sans human intervention, and then alongwith the distorted version, after such interventions. If need be might attempt to give an expose on them, too.

posted by anibanerjee on May 23, 2017 at 7:43 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Anib

I shall wait for your considered comment. Some words I edited and added after reading this comment of yours, so it will take you another read, probably. This I did so as to fit with a few of  your observations. Thanks and cheers 

posted by anibanerjee on May 23, 2017 at 7:34 AM | link to this | reply

Re: kabu

Thank you for partaking in the party. But how was the food, Lol?

posted by anibanerjee on May 23, 2017 at 7:29 AM | link to this | reply

Anib

Thanks very much for the detailed essay on karma.  I will need more time to read it carefully.  Let me say this for now.  Regardless of how well you explain karma  (and you are starting off very well,  as far as I can tell),  I don't think the cosmos,  or our cosmic superiors,  or quite so organized and universal.  I think karma might be ONE system of justice that is being enforced by ONE large faction of our cosmic superiors.  It may be the largest faction.  It's manifestation on Earth seems to be the oldest. 

But the karmic system might also be part of the oppression and suppression of we souls on Earth.  It is beautifully presented to us by some cosmic superiors;  it is wonderfully explained by supporters such as yourself.  But so was Communism beautifully presented by Karl Marx,  so was Islam beautifully presented by Mohammed,  and we see the horrors that those ideas of justice have given us.  

That is just a quick thought.......  will have more later.

posted by GoldenMean on May 23, 2017 at 6:24 AM | link to this | reply

and wow thank you for sharing with us. much food for thought.

posted by Kabu on May 23, 2017 at 5:55 AM | link to this | reply

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