The Effulgence Within > Comments on God:the physic par excellence (contd.from Arjuna's state of immobilization)

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Re: Re: Aba

Well, first of all, kudos to you for knowing Sanskit and being able to translate it into something the Western-trained, thinking mind could begin to comprehend. Very interesting. As you say, who are we to decide? Will read the next very soon. 

posted by RPresta on January 21, 2017 at 2:41 PM | link to this | reply

Thanks for your description of reincarnation from the Hindu doctrines.  There is also philosophical support for it,  from the writings of the great German Christian philosopher Immanuel Kant.  From a logical and moral viewpoint,  we must acknowledge that Justice (or fairness) is a primary crucial concern of any intelligent life form,  whether spiritual or biological.  The gross injustice present in this life on Earth creates a logical and moral need for reincarnation. 

For one example,  consider the murder of an infant.  I will not get into abortion,  because there are other possible issues at play there.  But when an infant or young child is murdered, or even killed by an accident,  Justice demands that they (the soul,  the actual entity)  be given another chance at life.  Reincarnation is the most logical vehicle for this.  I think my next post will be about reincarnation.  Meanwhile,  you may be interested in my fairly recent post,  which addressed the conflict between medical science and a doctor's near death experience.  This should be a link to my post  http://www.blogit.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/Seeking_Limits_Of_God/899430  

Cheers!! 

posted by GoldenMean on January 20, 2017 at 12:10 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Anibanerjee

I was thinking about your fine comment 'it has logical, philosophical and moral justification behind it, as a pure concept'. My take first on the logical: As per Christianity, Jehovah the creator and forecaster has given the desire to live forever in man's heart, then it is logical that His words are not untrue. So also the Bible reveals His purpose, He blesses obedient human beings with everlasting life on a paradise Earth. "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it", said David, the composer of psalms. Jesus himself resurrected, and how can resurrection be possible without reincarnation? These are perfect hints (though not proofs) that the soul we Hindus call Atma is that Energy Supreme through which all is created but is itself Syambhu - uncreated. As for a logical explanation I think I must elaborate as best as I understand and have learnt from the scriptures that the Soul is not material and as such can hardly be caught by science, just as the fragrance of a flower is not material and therefore not subject to any kind of scrutinizing measurements, but can one deny its existence? How can you measure fragrance! or, for that matter the innocent loveliness of a child? The concept of the pranc Shakti, energy that sustains the body and the iccha shakti - the undying energy of desire must be brought into light. With pranc Shakti dying, the body dies but the iccha Shakti does not, with the dying of the body. This then becomes the cause of soul's transmigrating to another body so that the unfulfilled desires at the time of death may be fulfilled in another body (an instrument) , call it the effect.  But hey, let me stop, it is developing into a full blog. My gratitudes, GoldenMean. 

posted by anibanerjee on January 20, 2017 at 6:38 AM | link to this | reply

Anibanerjee

While traditional Christianity rejects reincarnation,  certain teachers and movements have believed and embraced it.  Early Christian Gnostics believed it, and were severely persecuted.  The Christian Cathars in France believed it, in the 1200's I think,  and the Catholics sent armies and destroyed them.  Just recently,  Elizabeth Clair Prophet and her husband Mark Prophet had their own sect of Christianity that believed and preached reincarnation.  She wrote the book "Reincarnation, The Missing Link In Christianity" (1997).  I used to watch Elizabeth preach on TV,  on the PBS stations.  There are others.  I think they are on the right track. 

I am a Christian, following Christ and his teachings,  but I do regard reincarnation as true.  It has logical,  philosophical,  and moral justification behind it,  as a pure concept. 

And there are many Western researchers looking into it,  with my favorite being Dr. Michael Newton,  who wrote "Destiny Of Souls"  and  "Journey of Souls".  Newton has established his own organization throughout the USA,  with doctors conducting his type of past life regression.  I would love to be regressed myself someday.  So reincarnation is slowly creeping into Christianity and into the West,  even though it is condemned as a heresy by the orthodox Christians.  Cheers 

posted by GoldenMean on January 20, 2017 at 3:24 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Hi Dolly ji

What you have just said, Shamaji, is what I was replying to GoldenMean. I only try to do my best and the stamp of authority of your liking and understanding, finding these meaningful is so fulfilling for me. I give you my heartiest Dhanyavad. 

posted by anibanerjee on January 20, 2017 at 12:30 AM | link to this | reply

Re: War is the ultimate tragedy, but.....(GoldenMean).

First of all many thanks to come in to read, referencing my previous ones too. Christianity, you say, lacks the feature of Hinduism/Buddhism. The West, typically believes what science approve, and the West has come to these conclusions through not faith, but years and years of meditstion distilling experience. 'Cosmic recycling' as you use a very beautiful synonym for reincarnation, the west still does not believe. And now there are innumerable instances of rebirths acknowledged by scientific researches, and of even their purpose as to why they were reborn. It is simply the cause and effect phenomena. We cannot have an effect without a cause which all have to end in their logical conclusions. In order that the evil doers become good, it may take many rebirths until they come to the conclusion of their uselessness through pinnacling in their evil. But people don't seem to learn, the same way as science says that a thesis over time becomes its own antithesis, the thesis and antithesis then reacting to create a synthesis of  a better kind than the earlier thesis. Synthesis further  converts into thesis, once again reacting  .... creates another higher synthesis and so on and so forth. I am delighted by your observation and will try undo the strands one at a time. Please accept my heartiest thanks. 

posted by anibanerjee on January 20, 2017 at 12:22 AM | link to this | reply

Karam se karta ka bhav juda karna ek aaisa abhyaas hai jis ke liye ek jiwan shayad kam hai....enjoyed reading some of the most meaningful excerpts from Gita presented so effectively by you.

posted by shamasehar on January 20, 2017 at 12:00 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Aba

Thank you Presta dear, just as I was saying to sam you too distil the essence and just hit onto that very right spot. Why I am saying this is because while translating from Sanskrit one has to first meditate and then describe these in words, somewhat difficult to find equivalents to convey the ideas, and these were the points I got stuck in Your what is Truth, what is that fine line that divides the right from the wrong and then again, who are we to decide so. Is that decision unanimously approved too? These are pertinent querise which I will  try to incorporate in my further writes. Should come out interesting, hopefully. Thanks again, ever so much.  

 

posted by anibanerjee on January 19, 2017 at 11:50 PM | link to this | reply

Re: sis shelly

what an I say about you! You have  that fine quality of differentiating nectar savouring the essence and that is what delights me. Hats off to you. 

posted by anibanerjee on January 19, 2017 at 11:35 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Kabu

Tbat you have come to this conclusion is a fine statement of your true nature and also of your purity of the soul. These concepts are most definitively not of the brain but of instinct and feeling. Science says instinct is not reliable but those who go deep in meditative state realize truth through experiencing it first hand.  

posted by anibanerjee on January 19, 2017 at 11:32 PM | link to this | reply

Re: C C T

We can't still say that our current knowledge we can call that immortality of the soul to be a supposition. Science, quantum physics, has, however, come quite close to that idea and a lot of research is current that it may be true after all. For this I will give a separate blog. Thank you so much for your reading and fine comments that motivate me. 

posted by anibanerjee on January 19, 2017 at 11:10 PM | link to this | reply

Re: FSI

i feel grateful for your continued support and appreciation. thanksalot. 

posted by anibanerjee on January 19, 2017 at 11:03 PM | link to this | reply

War is the ultimate tragedy, but.....

I had to go back to your earlier post about this war,  to get some background.  You told us in that earlier post that this was a war of righteousness against unrighteousness.  That the opponents of Arjuna were blinded by ambition,  that they were trying to unlawfully usurp the kingdom.  If that is true,  then Arjuna's sudden withdrawal from the fight was tragic,  unjustified and dangerous.

The guardians of goodness are always forced into war by the actions of the evil.  The evil are not sad to dominate,  tyrannize and kill..... they enjoy it,  and they must be stopped.  Arjuna's sadness at killing confirms his goodness.  His opponents are not sad at the prospect of killing him.  So he must fight,  to destroy the agents of evil that are trying to destroy him.  He must fight,  to preserve and defend goodness,  regardless of the fate of the enemies he slays.....  even if they are utterly destroyed......

..... BUT in this post,  Arjuna has been consoled and encouraged by the fact that his slain enemy's soul will be undamaged.  That they will live on,  and  inhabit another body. 

In effect,  the evil enemy soul will be stopped and defeated in this life,  stopped from doing and spreading evil,  so that he/she has a chance to stop and reflect upon his/her errors.  Hopefully in the next incarnation,  he/she will then listen to the teachers of goodness,  and not repeat the same evil path of abuse,  domination,  tyranny,  torture,  rape,  murder,  etc. 

In my view,  this is a vital necessary process,  and I call it cosmic recycling.  Those who choose the wrong path of evil,  must be recycled and given another chance.  This is the feature of Hinduism / Buddhism that I wholeheartedly agree with,  and I am sad that Christianity lacks it.  

posted by GoldenMean on January 19, 2017 at 2:11 AM | link to this | reply

Aba

I love the concepts but, like Arjuna, I would have to think about digesting parts of what he is being told. It's okay to slay his family, since their souls won't die? There is a fine line here for me with the veracity of that concept. What is truth? Where does right separate from wrong? I so look forward to reading more. So informative, and deep, dear Aba.   

posted by RPresta on January 17, 2017 at 11:13 PM | link to this | reply

In the first part when he wasn't responding either way I thought perhaps he was internally contemplating. This struck me:Only the material body is subject to death, the embodied soul is said to be eternally existent, indestructible and immeasurable (infinite); therefore fight, O Arjuna.It seems to be the first true realization and then the follow up: The soul is never born nor ever dies, nor even comes into being with the creation of a body. It is ever unborn, eternal, timeless, and ageless; it does not die with the death of a body. This is confirmation for me. And then Arjuna seems to be amazed but I think he is entering a perspective never before encountered and it will an eye opener and should directly affect how he goes forward. Shelly  

posted by sam444 on January 17, 2017 at 8:19 PM | link to this | reply

The soul is never born nor ever dies, nor even comes into being with the creation of a body. It is ever unborn, eternal, timeless, and ageless; it does not die with the death of a body.

This is just the way I have struggled along with my thinking until I came to this very conclusion. Thank you.

posted by Kabu on January 17, 2017 at 10:11 AM | link to this | reply

i don't think I would be swayed by that supposition. Of course different times.

Good writing though.

posted by C_C_T on January 17, 2017 at 10:00 AM | link to this | reply

It truly is very deep, I feel.

posted by FormerStudentIntern on January 17, 2017 at 9:23 AM | link to this | reply

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