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Re: One more thing about debate.

I know exactly what you mean here Xeno. You want nasty and abrasive, check out

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/

Maybe I"ve been reading him too long and I've developed some of the techniques that his commentors use. THEY ARE BRUTAL. I tried to weigh in on one of his posts re: someone stealing a communion wafer from a Catholic Church and inviting people to submit video via youtube various ways to desecrate said wafer. I thought this was unnecessary...

They tore me a new one......talk about vicious.

posted by ZenMom on May 12, 2009 at 9:35 AM | link to this | reply

Re:

gap..gap...Mal..........My sister, my friend. I hope I can resolve this w/ blogit so the site doesn't lose ANY of the intelligent, warm, oh-so informative contributors, such as yourself. (And, I was kidding (tongue in cheek) about hitting up a strip club in NY when I visit you.) That's part of the problem I have communicating via the written word. I'm the same way about PHONE conversations. I thrive in the face-to-face form of communication. I really need to see a person's EYES in order to determine what resides deep inside them.

However, I have always had a good feeling about you. I think we've have a similar "spirit" and approach to living, regardless of our beliefs about god/religion. ZM

posted by ZenMom on May 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Retrograde Mercury... argumentative times... indeed..

Mason - I gotta be honest, I'm not sure what you're saying here. (It could be because I've developed a MASSIVE headache and the words are getting blurred.)

Are you asking me to "choose my weapon". If so.........I choose FREEDOM since there is no weapon more powerful. Thanks for stopping by and weighing in.......ZM

(Okay, I'm laughing.........I highlighted and enlarged the FREEDOM and all that ran through my mind was MEL GIBSON in a blue face.)

posted by ZenMom on May 12, 2009 at 9:22 AM | link to this | reply

Re:

LG -You wrote: "I do think that a line should be drawn" And, you're comfortable letting blogit employees (of whom you know NOTHING about) decide where that line should be?

Why can't they just sit on the sidelines, only calling "fowl" then one blogger "throws an elbow" or "checks a blogger against the boards"? (Oh, wait the refs don't usually act on this offense.) ZM

posted by ZenMom on May 12, 2009 at 9:19 AM | link to this | reply

Re: As everyone can see, my words are interlaced throughout this post and even

GD - You know you are one of my "stars" here. So, you have NEVER been warned? Yes, you know how to play well with others. No doubt I still have much to learn from you. 

My Mother always told me I had a big mouth. She still does but, it's interesting, cause in my family, I am the ONE person everyone comes to when they have a problem. They know I will be honest with them. And, sure, I sometimes use "colorful" language when communicating w/ my family.   ZM

posted by ZenMom on May 12, 2009 at 9:13 AM | link to this | reply

One more thing about debate.
You know what debate is, and it can get nasty.  A person going face to face with another person had better be ready to accept some pretty hard statements from the opponent.

In fact, in the forum of public opinion, you know things can get pretty rough.  Just read the opinion columns -- or read the nasty things said on many web pages.

It is an open forum that helps us to hone our ideas, to see where our ideas stand.  As Yeshua said, (paraphrased) "A house built on a rock will not fall, even with all the storms and such blowing against it."

A person secure in their beliefs should not have a problem with criticism.


posted by Xeno-x on May 12, 2009 at 9:11 AM | link to this | reply

Re: So the ones who complain about being 'offended' get their way

Thanks Kooka....You're on target when you write: 

"Blogit seems to be getting over-runned by those who get offended way too easily and it is going to hurt this community if we keep giving in to hem so easily."

Let's hope we can help Robert/blogit loosen their leash on this site.

posted by ZenMom on May 12, 2009 at 9:08 AM | link to this | reply

Re:
Thanks metalrat (Charles) You know me well. You've been reading me a long time. I've written about my kids problems, other family issues and pretty much every other issue. Hey, you even checked out my M/A blog and commented. (Remember the collar and leash?) In any case, thanks for your words here. Wherever I end up, I'll be staying in touch w/ you.

posted by ZenMom on May 12, 2009 at 9:06 AM | link to this | reply

I don't know . . .
while Zenmom's comments have some objectionable elements in them, like language, on the whole, they seem to be no worse than other comments posted here.  Of course, some of the comments will go unnoticed since they are made to a blogger with whom the commenter agrees, making snide (and possibly insulting) remarks about another commenter who disagrees with the post.  Thus the poster agrees with the snide (and possibly insulting) remarks made by the person in agreement with him/her.

Some of us don't openly "call spade a spade (I think you probably would have censured Harry Truman for his remarks had he been a blogger here)"; however, when reading some of these posts, I wonder if some of these people, particularly godbots, got their brains out of a Crackerjack (r) box.

I think possibly a general examination (random) of posts and comments should be pursued, and evaluation made as to exactly how many posters/commenters might be violating the policy as you have delineated it here.

I have an idea that it's some of the new members that objected to ZenMom, while the older ones have become accustomed to her criticism.  Maybe you should take that into consideration, and consider their "thin-skinnedness".  And the fact that they, in their religious zeal, thought they could redeem the world, carrying the message that so many before them have, discovering that indeed many "have heard it all before", and are sort of "ho-hum" about that message, in fact sometimes critical.

I think, instead of pursuing a policy of blocking comments right off, you should issue a warning -- particulary about the language.  You will find bloggers throughout this site who commit the same "sins" as you attribute to ZenMom.

And I do think that some of your responses constitute "overkill".


posted by Xeno-x on May 12, 2009 at 9:02 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Man oh Man

I've had people suggest this before.

Zen is about being at peace within oneself. "It does not mean to be in a place where there is no noise, trouble or hard work. It means to  be in the midst of those things and still be calm in your heart."

It certainly does NOT mean one allows people to trample ones's RIGHTS. ZM

posted by ZenMom on May 12, 2009 at 9:02 AM | link to this | reply

Man oh Man
The "Zen" part of this "Mom"'s name doesn't correspond to all the name-calling, either.

posted by WindTapper on May 12, 2009 at 8:30 AM | link to this | reply

I'm rather bemused by the fact that the "Blogit Team" has taken it upon themselves to hold ZenMom up as a symbol of bad behavior on this site by posting her "questionable" comments on the MAIN PAGE!!!  I log on, and there's this ZenMom-is-not-playing-nicely-in-the-sandbox" compilation with a slew of representative comments.  I've said it before and I'll say it again - ZM was the first to come to my defense when I felt I was being persecuted for MY religion on this site.  I never heard from "The Blogit Team" when "a certain blogger" was going to town blaming Jews for everything from slavery in the United States to controlling the banking system all over the world.  Where was this administration then?  Did they call that blogger and all the commenters out on the carpet in a public forum for that way of thinking?  Ummm, no.  I, too, considered this a "village" where all sorts of people - including the predictable anti-semetic ones - weigh in and opine about all kinds of things.  If I wanted a whitewashed fantasy-land, I'd have signed on up on a Disney Blog! ZenMom's commentary is no more irreverent or colorful than Maureen Dowd's or other Big Newspaper columnists.   Mal

posted by gapcohen on May 12, 2009 at 5:12 AM | link to this | reply

Retrograde Mercury... argumentative times... indeed..

Many of us write controversial opinions here on Blogit… I certainly do… and most of us enjoy it… I read blogs that I totally disagree with sometimes, just out of curiosity… why should I attack them?  That only invites retaliation? 

 

Zealots of all stripes… left, right, green, communist, nazi, religious, atheist, or whatever… want to change the world to their ‘way’…

 

…it’s futile  …it never works …the world always has other plans.

 

This is a person who only lives in two dimensions… ‘black/white, right/wrong, good/bad, us/them, me/you… etc.

 

…some evolve to see from the reality of 3 dimensions… both of the two dimensions, plus an inner 3rd dimension make the whole… we’re all part of the same enchilada… and we have to learn to love, forgive, and compromise for the benefit of us all.

 

All this technology and internet miracle! …and yet where have simple manners gone to?  There was a time of respect and honor (maybe like 1840-50’s circa)… and if you made such a slur to someone… you be called outside and asked to choose your weapon.

 

I often wonder if the ‘www’ really means world wide wimps… who are suddenly very brave hiding anonymously behind their keyboards.

posted by MasonGarrett on May 12, 2009 at 1:07 AM | link to this | reply

Personally I can't believe some of the comments I've seen floating around on here. While I liked the freedom they represented, I do think that a line should be drawn. Thanks for setting a standard admins, it allows more freedom in what I may feel like expressing, without personal attack. As for the, "They've said worse than we have" argument, personally, I'll just follow the standards and not worry about what others do. Most of all, I think that really any type of negative, or battling type comments end all debate anyway. Put people on the defensive, you've lost any ability to communicate.

posted by LonerGreen on May 11, 2009 at 11:25 PM | link to this | reply

As everyone can see, my words are interlaced throughout this post and even

in the comments.

The part that has always surprised me about these types of incidents is how so many people miss the point. We are able to say just about anything we please on this forum, all we have to remember is to not make it personal if we disagree with other members. Don't mention member user names in negative blog titles, stay away from personal attacks and if you must refute an opinion, either do it respectfully, or written in a manner where no one is specifically named or targeted.

There is also a subtle distinction between posting that which others may find offensive in our own blogs and leaving offensive comments on the blogs of others. More than just the difference between a passive or a proactive approach, blogs are the personal efforts of others and subsequently an offensive comment cannot help but be taken personally. 

I could go on but I will conclude with how I have managed to write a controversial blog on this site for years and engage in countless heated debates but not once receive even a warning from the site administrators . . . the day I arrived here, the first thing I did was read this page: Conduct Policy . Some of you should do the same, it's at the bottom of every page on this site.  

 

posted by gomedome on May 11, 2009 at 11:02 PM | link to this | reply

So the ones who complain about being 'offended' get their way
That really is what it comes down to.  The more adult of us, who have suffered through much worse comments and personal attacks than those displayed here, know to just move on and not take it personally.  I can't help but wonder how many of those bloggers who complained about how 'offensive' those comments were have written stuff far more offensive.  We still a have blog out there titled "The Democrat Party: America's Cancer" which is very offensive and serves as nothing more than a childish, generalized attack on a group of people for the purpose of trying to piss them off.

Just because a few people dislike a comment, does not mean said comment should be deleted.  If we give in to those who are thinned skinned all the time, then it is censorship.

I would hope that Blogit has enough sense to look for patterns in the complaints and if they seem to get a large amount from certain bloggers who just seem to get offended easily, they might try to go after the blogger who is the real problem, the one who is not grown up enough to be able to handle an open forum such as Blogit, and not tr yo censor as much just to make a few happy.

Although I now know what happened to a few of my recent comments that vanished.   Blogit seems to be getting over-runned by those who get offended way too easily and it is going to hurt this community if we keep giving in to hem so easily.

posted by kooka_lives on May 11, 2009 at 5:11 PM | link to this | reply

Those comments are no worse than some of the ones I've seen the religious folk make on blogit.
And some of the examples you gave were absent of any "personal" attack, and even those were devoid of any personal threat or menace. They were just criticizing the beliefs...not the person...just as the believers on blogit criticize the non-belief of certain bloggers...in not so gentle terms, either!
Maybe the non-believers should start complaining to blogit about that?

posted by metalrat on May 11, 2009 at 4:58 PM | link to this | reply

Well, I guess Zen-Mom has gotten her response...Huh?

posted by Corbin_Dallas on May 11, 2009 at 4:58 PM | link to this | reply

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