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Naut
- have you seen this, by the way? Interesting how atheists still come out in favour of God - or at least Christian Evangelism.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article5400568.ece
posted by
mneme
on January 18, 2009 at 5:04 AM
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Re:
Mneme, you are definitely on the right track. as a matter of fact, I shall write another piece on this issue, and post it separately. Watch for it...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 17, 2009 at 6:36 PM
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So suppression of dissent through rigourous enforcement of dogma
strengthens a tradition? Are we in danger of weakening ours to the extent that we lose everything we have, or am I on the wrong track again?
posted by
mneme
on January 17, 2009 at 7:02 AM
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Nautikos
Those who learn the Scriptures from the teachings of the Spirit are not surprised at this for a moment. This has been prophesied for hundreds and hundreds of years. It is part of the teachings of the Last days but those days began with the first day of the first century after the birth of Christ. For those who do not know what the Bible really says about God they are those who are learning in their own power. Good post.
posted by
Justi
on January 15, 2009 at 8:41 AM
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Wow indeed!
I have been saying for a liong time that God doesn't mean what most people think it means. That to be God, it has to be something most people don't imagine, have not been taught to expect it to be.
Also, that some of us believe there is nothing worthy of being called God; others believe there is. But everyone believes something: I don't believe in non-believers.
In the New Testament you can find Jesus on the Mount, saying, "Your law tells you do not lust... I tell you, if you lust in your heart, you are breaking that law." ( I paraphrase, nothing new with quoting from the Bible, it's been done since the very first interpretation hit the air in a new language.) The significant thing is, he is said to have said: Your law... He does not own it himself. Yet he teaches from it. He teaches honesty, that thoughts matter, that thoughts are real. The teaching is worthy of being taught, regardless of his position about The Law, or the role of God in the lives of his audience.
He reinterpreted the Law, and God for the people who listened. He reframed. He offered a different way to think about things, to perceive things. His belief in what they believed was irrelevant.
posted by
Ciel
on January 13, 2009 at 10:39 AM
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Wow!
He should have been an investment banker.
Hi! from me
and from you know who!
Bo the wonder dog =^. .^= &
Woof!
posted by
Whacky
on January 10, 2009 at 7:05 PM
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You asked us to reflect, and reflect I did...! beginning to wonder whether that was wise but it's just thinking. If I was controversial please delete it, I won't mind at all.
posted by
mneme
on January 9, 2009 at 12:03 PM
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Naut,
"God is for me not a being, but a word for what can happen between people..." I have heard before of the notion of God as a verb. In my usual 'if ... then' way, I assume this conception treats the instructive books of the Bible as didactic metaphor, a way of teaching us how we as humans should love one another as God loves us.
If good can come about between people in this way, through teaching, and God exists only as a word for a benevolent relationship among humans, how does the pastor deal with the question of evil? Evil must logically be a word delineated as Satan, acting in the opposite way. We see manifestations of this relationship every day.
Good and evil both exist, and both are enacted by humans. The misery endured by ordinary people in the trouble-spots around the world suggests not only
the absence of God but the presence of Satan. In his argument, therefore, neither must exist. They are just words that embody a tendency towards good or evil. Humans, in this view, present a pretty hopeless case; in the absence of good, we are evil. But Western civilisation was built on the Judeo-Christian tradition and a strong faith in the triumph of good over evil, rather than evil over good. Surely this was not accident.
That our Western version of God's word allows for such freedom of ideas, and other versions don't, suggests more than just the strength of the tradition. It also begs the question which verb, and which word is being followed in other traditions. Arguably this is not a relationship of good, and is demonstrably a relationship of evil. His argument seems flawed or at least open to some quite disturbing conclusions.
posted by
mneme
on January 9, 2009 at 12:00 PM
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the pastor is showing the true god -- what we see every day
it's the here and now that we must be concerned with -- not anything at any other time and place
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 9, 2009 at 8:53 AM
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How interesting! I find it difficult that people actually go to his church but it takes all kinds to make the world go round! Shelly
posted by
sam444
on January 9, 2009 at 8:33 AM
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Sounds like a version of Christianity that George Orwell would dream up.
posted by
metalrat
on January 8, 2009 at 9:31 PM
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Nautikos, I hate to say it, but there have always been pastors, clerics, parsons, like that one, maybe even more than those who fervently believe and are "standing on the promises..." And, they have always had a following. People have a tendency to gravitate to churches/pastors that make them feel comfortable in what they already believe or don't believe. The Bible calls it "itching ears".
posted by
TAPS.
on January 8, 2009 at 8:51 PM
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I was going to say basically the same thing as Sinome..wow...carzy
posted by
hazel_st_cricket
on January 8, 2009 at 4:53 PM
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"atheist believer" is an oxymoron... In this particular case I would be willing to drop the "oxy" and declare this guy-pastor- cook is most definitely a moron ... surpassed in "moronism" only by those who attend his services and buy his book. Where do you find these people????? loll
posted by
Sinome
on January 8, 2009 at 2:54 PM
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So, he's a believing non-believer? Sounds like a guy trying to have it both ways! Mal
posted by
gapcohen
on January 8, 2009 at 1:53 PM
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