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Naut
Thank you so much for your kind words. Actually the guilt is more about avoiding learning anything about where I came from than anything else. I had my bout with survivor's guilt or sort of when Carl was in Iraq, it serves no purpose but it can
give one purpose. I have to work through what I need or even should do. I don't practice the faith and I don't feel that I owe it to anyone to change my beliefs in fact, I would consider that a dishonor to all who were killed. I just have to figure out what I feel I need to do at this time.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 8:20 PM
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bel,
I haven't seen the movie, but that isn't the issue for me at the moment. What does concern me is something I've heard from others, and I hear it form you again, and it never fails to shock me: that you should feel guilty! Guilty for having survived where others have died!
I understand sadness, tremendous sadness! It's a sadness that I feel very strongly, because I share it. It's a sadness that is coupled with anger and sometimes rage. But I do not really understand feelings of guilt on the part of the victim.
I am not Jewish, but I do have German blood in me, which adds to my rage. When the butchers slaughtered the European Jewry, they also destroyed the very soul of their own country, of Germany, where for hundreds of years Jews had contributed quite disproportionately to commerce, industry, science and especially the arts and music. In destroying Europe's Jewry, they destroyed an essential and irreplaceable part of European culture.
Of course, it is almost obscene to speak of science, art and music in the context of people being transported in cattle cars to the gas chambers and the ovens.
I have not yet seen Schindler's list. But I have seen Polansky's The Pianist, and, though I am not the mushy type, as you may have gathered, I cried.
And one more thing: you have seen me write about the threat of Islamo-fascism; I write about the threat of Islamo-fascism because it represents a threat as great if not greater than the 'old-fashioned' version of the 20th century, which is in any case dead. And it is a threat that is again targeting mainly Jews. Well, over my dead body!
I guess this is a rather lengthy and somewhat incoherent comment, but so be it, it just sort of came out.
My dear bel, in the end I can only say, please do not feel guilty! That would mean handing the butchers yet another victory!
posted by
Nautikos
on January 2, 2007 at 8:09 PM
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I might do that in time Azur
I'm not sure I am ready for it quite yet.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 7:41 PM
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Bel 65
You should try to get hold of the book from which the film was derived. It was called Schindler's Ark when it first came out about 20 years ago but some reprints go under the same name as the movie. It is by Thomas Keneally.
posted by
Azur
on January 2, 2007 at 7:40 PM
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Katray
I hope you are right. Raw seems like a good word to me.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 7:37 PM
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I still have mixed emotions about watching it..
I haven't yet. I didn't know about your heritage Bel; I would think that would add a rawness (for lack of a better word) to the experience. Sensitive souls struggle with viewing such atrocities, but I force myself sometimes, in the name of gaining knowledge and/or insight into our human conditions. Perhaps we (collective) transform for the better - become kinder, more loving, accepting and tolerant, when made aware of the horrors we are capable of inflicting when struck by the evils of hatred and prejudice.
Sorry for the rambling response - your post is very thought provoking and moving.
posted by
Katray2
on January 2, 2007 at 7:34 PM
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Holy Grail
I think that is what bothers me most...it does still happen in fact in some ways it is worse because we seldom even notice the hate crimes anymore. People are still judged, ridiculed and victimized based on race, religion or the way they part their hair.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 7:32 PM
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I'm sure your heritage does add even more of a sting, but it is hard to watch. Just to try and make sense of the depths of the evil and tragedy of it is almost too much to take. But I think it's important that none of us forget it so it won't happen again.
posted by
Holy_Grail
on January 2, 2007 at 7:29 PM
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Joe
with my love for history it was odd that I hadn't seen it but it really shook me badly. I can't say that I thought about my own heritage through the movie instead what struck was the hatefulness of human beings toward another. It truly shakes me to the core.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 7:25 PM
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I don't think this has anything at all to do with your heritage.
Everybody says that Schindler's List is a must see for ANYONE (regardless of heritage). I, like you, have absolutely no desire to watch the horrendous things that occurred back then. Sorry, I just don't find that an entertaining escape from reality.
posted by
Joe_Love
on January 2, 2007 at 7:23 PM
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Thank you Presley
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 7:12 PM
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Taps
It will take me some time to work through it all but I am glad I watched it too.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 7:09 PM
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bel
posted by
Presley
on January 2, 2007 at 7:08 PM
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Presley
You make a good point and there is a reason for me not making a statement on what I took away from this and that is because I am still trying to figure that part out. I was emotionally drained after watching it and now I have to figure out what to do with what I saw.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 7:07 PM
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Bel
I've been sitting here for several minutes trying to figure out what to say. You haven't really stated what you gained or lost from finally watching it. My hope is that your experience was a positive one despite the topic and the content. Does that make any sense?
posted by
Presley
on January 2, 2007 at 6:31 PM
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Bel
What an interesting post. I think that I can understand how you would feel about that but no, I have not walked the walk or talked the talk. I'm glad you did finally watch it. Good for you.
posted by
TAPS.
on January 2, 2007 at 4:31 PM
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Pat
I did watch it last night. It is a wonderful movie. I am always in awe of Steven Speilberg and his ability to make us all feel so mucy from his movies.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 1:14 PM
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I hope you'll see the film. It's well done and inspirational
whether one is Jewish or not. I've been lucky enough to know some Jewish families fairly well, and to get their insights on the traditions and culture. One family I used to know were holocaust survivors who'd lost family members at Auswitch. A thing I especially admire - the love for art and learning. And of course, the food! :)pat
posted by
Pat_B
on January 2, 2007 at 12:39 PM
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Mysteria
It is heartbreaking and chilling. It is also very well done.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 11:41 AM
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Justi
I am fine, thank you. The dust bunnies are in trouble today but other than that, all is well.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 11:40 AM
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bel
Your heritage demands it!!
posted by
TIMMYTALES
on January 2, 2007 at 11:39 AM
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Timmy
I agree, I believe you are very right. It was a hard watch to say the least but I honestly believe it should be required veiwing in every school in the country.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 2, 2007 at 11:36 AM
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bel
It's not something that you can't want to know.....you have to know it.
Eisenhower made it a point to bring townspeople through the camps, made it a point for every serviceman available to witness the atrocity. The general said that he wanted that so that no one would forget. He knew that at some point in time, someone somewhere would say that it did not happen. That day has come and there are few witnesses left.
posted by
TIMMYTALES
on January 2, 2007 at 11:03 AM
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bel
Are you okay today? I am reposting some stuff about war through a child's eyes, mine during that war of the Shindler's List....WWII. I would like it if you would check it out.
http://www.blogit.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/Justi2306/
posted by
Justi
on January 2, 2007 at 10:56 AM
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Bel
Bless your heart dear little one. Do not feel guilty you have done nothing. It is a great honor to be a Jew, Jesus was a Jew. You are God's chosen people. I am glad you saw that. Be blessed dear one.
posted by
Justi
on January 1, 2007 at 11:27 PM
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I've always wanted to see that movie, but am scared that it will break
my tender heart..I remember seeing lots of movies in school documenting the horrors and terrors of the holocaust... this was many years ago, but I remain stupified, shocked and shaken...unbelievable the atrocities found through and throughout human action...
posted by
mysteria
on January 1, 2007 at 10:03 PM
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Bel
God, I know
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on January 1, 2007 at 9:47 PM
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Sunny
it truly is spine chilling to see the horror of what so many suffered without any hope of saving themselves.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 1, 2007 at 9:46 PM
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Bel
I don't blame you for not wanting to know about all of that. What little I know about it, makes me feel very sick.
It's hard to believe that humans could treat other humans in this manner.
posted by
Afzal_Sunny7
on January 1, 2007 at 9:45 PM
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