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Ciel, very, very well written!
And I totally agree. I believe that the more lives we live and the older our soul becomes, we decide to take on more challenges within each life. Though we can't choose the exact challenges' situations specifically, the lesson is there to learn no doubt. Now, about that possession thing, um, how is it that I have been able to be ruled by my pets?
posted by
SpitFire70
on May 1, 2005 at 5:05 PM
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I don't think that the vast most of us, O-Dancer, appreciate how much
we babies and children are loved and cared for... We feel so alone, so cut off, like Helen Keller must have felt, flailing about in a dark, silent and confusing world, until someone came along who could reach in there and guide her to the means to make contact.
But the entire time, she was loved dearly, and her frustration and pain was shared.
posted by
Ciel
on April 30, 2005 at 12:16 PM
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Interesting that we give permission sometimes by
not knowing any better, or by allowing that crack.
Goes in with how we can be blind when it comes to ourselves, or help others and not ourselves...or any multitude of other reasons. Sometimes I think it's our disbelief in anything but the physical.
Takes a long time to get the feet wet and get an understanding of how and why and what you can do to protect yourself. I'm glad those protective spirits are there as we toddlers fall about.
posted by
Oceandancer
on April 30, 2005 at 5:56 AM
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Sannhet, many of the paradigms we can use to look at things like this
are to some extent bogged down in assumptions that the limitations of spirit are much like the limitations of body. I think if you look at things from the perspective of an entity that is not bound by the physical experiences of time and of space, it may clear some confusion. Think of a 'place' where time is as fluid as it is in dreams... And then think of a 'place' where it is totally irrelevant...
What you are describing is real mostly in terms of thought-forms, and the astral / blueprint level, where reality is made of what we think. If a certain tradition believes that if you do this, then that will result, then, in some corner of the cornerless astral, that will be the truth. But it doesn't make it true everywhere, and it doesn't supercede what is true on the greater spiritual level, which is more refined still, as the astral is more refined than the physical. Refined, subtle, rarified... etheric...
The exact phenomenon you are describing in the paradigm of the Shamanistic Model of the Universe could be defined just as well through the Parts Model, or through the Psychological Model of multiple personality. They just use different assumptions of what lies behind it all, and different words.
posted by
Ciel
on April 29, 2005 at 1:59 PM
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I wouldn't want to withold permission from everything
even if I truly had such control over my boundaries and will, that I could. That is not what human life is about... but to take more control, more possession over myself as I am here and now is a far distance from absolute! I have a considerable way to go before that is a consideration!
I don't mean to imply, by the way, that taking responsibility for being vulnerable absolves others from their responsibility for disregarding or joyfully taking advantage of our vulnerability.
posted by
Ciel
on April 29, 2005 at 1:43 PM
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Ciel -
I like the concept you present of permission, but I'm still thinking about it. While not an expert, in shamanism many times one will cut off a part of one's soul (usually the result of some sort of trauma - like abuse) to keep the rest of the soul healthy - a survival mechanism, if you will. Once this happens, one is not as strong as one was, and another manipulative soul could take advantange of a weakened soul. Possession then occurs. I guess I'm not sure if it happened because the weaker person gave permission (knowingly or not) or the stronger one just overpowered the person. What you (an Pappy) are saying though, is that permission has to be granted. Hmmm. I'm trying to work this out in my mind, but I'm struggling with it.
posted by
sannhet
on April 29, 2005 at 1:42 PM
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Pappy, we set our own limits in this, and it is evident that a lot of us
decline the absolute level of responsibility over how we deal with what life presents us. There is much in life that encourages us to cede some responsibilty here and some there, and to accept and deal with the consequences of that.
To accept absolute responsibility, you'd have to be Jesus or somethin!
posted by
Ciel
on April 29, 2005 at 1:35 PM
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Unconscious permission, Ciel
Pretty much says it all. Unless we put on the full armor we were intended to wear, we are nothing but cracks. Our interest is the permission we give, nobody sets out to become addicted to anything, yet we give ourselves wholly to one thing or another. We can use free will to decide what to give our interest to, but we cannot withhold it from everything and still remain alive.
posted by
pappy
on April 29, 2005 at 12:44 PM
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Ciel,
Good, then we'll be in touch. I really have to go now. Thank you for your insights.
posted by
Blanche.
on April 29, 2005 at 12:35 PM
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Mary x, my beliefs don't exclude yours.
posted by
Ciel
on April 29, 2005 at 12:14 PM
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Ciel,
You do raise some very good points, especially regarding karma and the spiritual lessons to be learned by all concerned from psychoses and other emotional disturbances. As a result of my experiences, though, I no longer believe in karma and reincarnation, but in rebirth of the spirit through Christ, the intervention of the Holy Spirit, the supremacy of God and the Holy Spirit over all over spiritual entities and death as the entry to the kingdom of Heaven.
I don't want to insult you but our beliefs may be mutually exclusive. However, I am very interested in spritual healing.
posted by
Blanche.
on April 29, 2005 at 12:10 PM
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To respond more directly to the question you raise, Mary x,
various spiritual issues may be involved with psychosis, including karmic issues of needed experience-- and not only just for the one who is psychotic, but for those affected peripherally, too. Some lesson plans are very hard on the body and personality of the life that has been set to learning it. How we deal with that difficulty is part of it, too.
Some think that no one should interfere with another spirit's experience and learning, but I believe that there is something to be learned about the exercise of humanity and compassion that impells some people to get involved. It isn't always clear what, exactly, we are meant to be learning!
posted by
Ciel
on April 29, 2005 at 11:59 AM
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Ciel,
I would like to go into this in more depth. I'll email you this weekend when I'm less pressed for time. Thank you for your response.
posted by
Blanche.
on April 29, 2005 at 11:58 AM
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Mary x, psychosis can be regarded through this paradigm of the spirit
as an issue of possession or other psychic disorder, but I don't personally believe that is always the most useful way to look at it.
I worked with a case of boy with Tourette's Syndrome once, and saw that an outside entity was very much involved, and the energy approach to healing was effective in surprising ways, though it did not entirely take away the problem.
There are biological causes that may echo disruptions on other levels, but the best way to treat them is still biologically.
The same is true for psychological disorders, that the psychic is an adjunct to and not a replacement for other therapies.
I'm aware that this is a profoundly personal issue for you, and if you would like to discuss it in particular view of that, feel free to email me.
posted by
Ciel
on April 29, 2005 at 11:51 AM
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Ciel,
Wow, this is interesting. Free will v. coercion and manipulation, in allowing other entities access to our consciousness. Where in this spectrum does psychosis lie: a willing abandonment of consciousness and invitation to entities unknown or coercion and manipulation?
posted by
Blanche.
on April 29, 2005 at 11:01 AM
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