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Westwend -
In a dualist world, you can't have good if you don't have evil. Without one, the other doesn't exist.
posted by
sannhet
on January 7, 2005 at 2:31 PM
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what can I say, I'm an open book
posted by
PastorB
on January 7, 2005 at 11:40 AM
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That's the main reason
I abandoned Christianity. I never could figure out why God just didn't get rid of Satan.
Religious Science says there are no victims that we create our own experience with our thoughts. That's still a little hard for me to swallow when I think about the events you mentioned.
posted by
jollyjeff
on January 7, 2005 at 11:40 AM
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Pastor Uni - how did I know you'd write a whole post on this? ;-) I've been reading you for too long.
posted by
roofpig
on January 7, 2005 at 11:34 AM
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if you're interested you can see the post I wrote in response to
this.
posted by
PastorB
on January 7, 2005 at 11:33 AM
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BUT...
Either way God created evil...because...the evil was either learned or from within...it had to have been before it could have been displayed...and I do agree with Kelli...without evil there would be no good...you can't have one without the other...
posted by
SincerityAnna
on January 7, 2005 at 11:19 AM
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uni - (sorry, it's so much easier to type than your new moniker!) I don't necessarily believe in what I'm arguing, I'm just playing devil's advocate (pleeeeeeeeease excuse the pun).
The fact is that regardless of what God created him to be, God is supposedly all-knowing, right? This means that his awareness is not confined to the present. He knows what is in store for each one of us. Why would this be any different with his angels? He knowingly created the angel (I refuse to use the name Lucifer because it has been proven that the name Lucifer refers to someone else completely) and therefore brough evil into our world, even if it wasn't supposed to happen right away.
Again, I don't necessarily believe this, I'm just arguing the point in hopes that one or both of us will discover something we hadn't previously. :-)
posted by
roofpig
on January 7, 2005 at 11:18 AM
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We have the free will to be a part of evil or try and change it. The examples you cite do have innocent people who died in the path of war evil disease and hatred. Some have been eventually stopped by human beings who stood against the tide. I don't believe that God actively changes events in our daily lives for good or for evil. Prayer can cause change, but not always in the time frame that we as small little crumbs in the universe want it to happen.
allowing the commission of sin- 1. holocaust - many Germans and others went along with Hitler until enough stood against him. Was it God allowing all those people to sin? I think they made the choice to believe Hitler's lies and supremecy crap just to have a better life for themself. 2. the Black Death - probably caused by crowding and lack of sanitation ( rats) Science had not conclusively told people to clean up the streets. Ignorance more than sin in that one 3. racially motivated violence- occuring throughout time, still happens today the sin being individual people who promote hate out of insecurity and lack of knowledge. This is people choosing to be evil, many people do stand up against this. I don't see Satan in control at all. Yes there are bad things in the world but also just as many good and beautiful. sorry so long winded
posted by
the-loanlady
on January 7, 2005 at 11:15 AM
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EVIL gives us a reason to follow God. Who would devote so much time to God if evil did not exist? A human? We need evil to keep our faith.
posted by
Kelli
on January 7, 2005 at 11:15 AM
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roof, I beg to differ
When God created His angels, Lucifer (now known as the "devil") was originally created as one of the highest ranking of all the angels. Indeed, he was probably the highest ranking of ALL the Angels! And he was not evil at his creation. he was created to be an Holy Angel of the Holy God of the Universe !
Specifically, Lucifer was created to be the "Anointed Cherub (Angel) that Covereth" (Ezekiel 28:14). Thus, Lucifer (who later became known as the devil, after his sinful rebellion against God, his Creator) was originally created to be and was a Guardian Cherub, with the purpose of protecting and proclaiming God's Holiness!
Therefore, obviously, Lucifer (the devil) was not "evil" at his creation.
posted by
PastorB
on January 7, 2005 at 11:09 AM
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Without evil we would have no good.
posted by
Kelli
on January 7, 2005 at 11:06 AM
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Roof...
That makes sense...but then again it doesn't...but that makes sense...
posted by
SincerityAnna
on January 7, 2005 at 11:04 AM
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A.) God created the angel that eventually became Satan
B.) God is all powerful and all knowing
C.) God would have known that his angel would become Satan
D.) Therefore, God brought evil into the world.
posted by
roofpig
on January 7, 2005 at 10:59 AM
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West...
I've often wondered that myself, actually...
posted by
SincerityAnna
on January 7, 2005 at 10:50 AM
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God did not bring sin/evil into the world
satan did and man choses to follow along with it. God doesn't hold anyone under His proverbial thumb and say "Now you will do this!" Man has the ability to chose, that is what God "allows".
posted by
PastorB
on January 7, 2005 at 10:10 AM
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I think it is a matter of perspective
like so much else it is all relative. Think of all the authors in the world. And all the books they have produced, and then think of all the LIVES touched in so many great great ways, every single minute of the day. This is a huge number in the positive catergory. And that is just one example of how people are graced daily.
posted by
mysteria
on January 7, 2005 at 10:09 AM
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I've always had a problem with this:
A.) Most Republicans are Christian
B.) Most Republicans are for the war
C.) Killing is a sin (one of the Ten Commandments)
Sorry this seems a little off topic, but I think it's related in that a lot of Christians who claim that Satan is indeed the one who is causing needless pain and death are in fact promoting it themselves.
This is not to say ALL Christians are doing this, so don't breathe down my neck Christian bloggers (you know who you are).
posted by
roofpig
on January 7, 2005 at 10:05 AM
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Westwend, I have often wondered this myself!
posted by
erinlove
on January 7, 2005 at 10:01 AM
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