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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Aba brother guru yogi

I'll do one shortly on how to free oneself from karma and use it only as a vehicle for Nirvana, its a Buddhist term which means the extinguishing of the flame, be one with 'the all', it is a secret where one works and still no karma is created. Thank you big sis for inspiring me. I am not a sage, but an ordinary man. Bye for now.

posted by anibanerjee on June 3, 2017 at 5:40 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Re: Re: Aba brother guru yogi

And I would be delighted to learn more of karma from a sage, li'l bro! To mitigate negativity, to elevate spiritual awareness and positivity; what is required, if possible at all at a human level, I should very much like to learn these concepts. To give one's all for good sometimes requires sacrifice, and therein could lie a paradox. So interesting. Thank you, Aba dear brother.

posted by RPresta on June 3, 2017 at 12:24 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Re: Aba brother guru yogi

Delighted at your comment. Would you that I try writing some more details on karma? This time the focus will be different. How can karma be a means of spiritual elevation which is at a tangent to retributive justice, the goal being human effort as 'lubrication'. The test of any law is how much am I willing to give my all For a cause, to ensure goodness to prevail. 

posted by anibanerjee on June 2, 2017 at 11:32 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Aba brother guru yogi

Hi Aba! I just saw that, though I was certain I had commented, my comment seems to have gotten lost! Must be karmic justice! Though I don't know why! Yes, I found it quite good, and it is a topic that is difficult to explain to a Western mind untrained, unlearned. I shall observe and learn until I can comment more fully in a meaningful manner. I thoroughly enjoy reading and learning through your posts. On one level I felt a bit of unease, for I would wish for there to be a way for a mere human to, if not reverse unpleasant karma, at least adjust it. I do understand this is a discussion in regard to justice, and perhaps there is another dimension or more to karma's manifestations. I just hate to see suffering.  

posted by RPresta on June 2, 2017 at 10:24 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Shamaji,

Glad to see you back. Thanks for the encouragement, and that is one if my favourite songs by Rafi saheb. Couldn' t reply earlier, I was travelling.

posted by anibanerjee on June 2, 2017 at 7:29 PM | link to this | reply

Hi, great writing.Dil ki aawaz bhi sun mere psane pe na ja, meri nazaron ki taraf dekh zamane pe na ja....main hakikat hoon Yeh ek roz dekhaounga tojhe....and then it goes like...daag dil ke nahin mitte hain, mitane pe na ja....
Pata nahin kyon post padte hue yeh lines yaad as gaye.

posted by shamasehar on June 1, 2017 at 12:15 AM | link to this | reply

Anib

I wholeheartedly agree that  "Fighting back requires a temperamentally a different kind of strength and courage"  that is difficult to follow.  Part of my mission is to spread the idea of that kind of strength and courage,  which we all have deep within us..... which we can call forth when we think we should. 

Also,  sometimes fighting back does not require us personally to fight..... but merely to support those who are fighting,  or to call in those whose job it is to fight evil.  For example,  in the news there have been stories of terrorists who had neighbors observing them.  The neighbors had suspicions that the terrorist was doing illegal things,  or planning something terrible,  but they did not call the police.  After the terrorist did his horrible deed,  the neighbors were sorry that they had not called the police.  One phone call might have saved many lives,  and put an evil predator in jail.  

posted by GoldenMean on May 30, 2017 at 5:33 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Aba brother guru yogi

Hope you have found it good.

posted by anibanerjee on May 30, 2017 at 1:00 AM | link to this | reply

Aba brother guru yogi

posted by RPresta on May 30, 2017 at 12:24 AM | link to this | reply

Re: anibanerjee

Thank you Sir. That you are in good health we all pray, and for your reading and commenting, I thank you from the core of my heart.

posted by anibanerjee on May 29, 2017 at 9:20 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Re: Goldenmean and Kabu

When the situations become such as to be beyond any repair the only other effective option remans to fight back or change oneself, one of the two. Fighting back requires a temperamentally a different kind of strength and courage for which, often the time and inclination as also to mould the collective mental attitude of others into sharing with the same verve as your's, all become impractical or time-consuming. I'm not saying it can't be done. But the time required to do so is long-drawn. In such cases I feel, should be to change oneself in attitude and deeds, the objective remaining the same. How best this can be done we all must get down to try and find a solution. Could Nishkama karma be that option, I'll study and post (probably). Thanks GM, Cheers

posted by anibanerjee on May 29, 2017 at 9:18 PM | link to this | reply

anibanerjee

This is very deep for me but I struggle to understand,Karma seems to refer to the soul somehow is my interpretation.Marvelous writing.

posted by WileyJohn on May 29, 2017 at 3:17 PM | link to this | reply

Also

Tragically, most people have this essential sequence of action reversed. They talk and appease first, and may use physical force later, but rarely take effective physical action against predators. They let the predators trick them and lie to them. They believe the predators have repented or changed in some small way, and want to give the predators more time to change. The predators may cleverly change their tactics or change their arguments, but they will keep abusing their victims, because that is what predators do. When other people finally decide to use force or violence to stop the predator, a tremendous amount of damage has already been done.  These are human failings of goodness,  which make your karmic justice necessary. 

posted by GoldenMean on May 29, 2017 at 8:35 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Goldenmean and Kabu

I just re-read your comment below.  You question the motives of evil predators thusly:  "On top of this, they are so jubilant and remorseless a tribe that one wonders at their audacity, 'are they humans'?"  I once felt that way,  wondering how can people be so evil?  Those of us who have goodness in our hearts,  have great difficulty understanding how evil can even exist,  much less drive people to kill,  enslave,  and abuse.  But it is quite simple.  There are two basic ways to survive.......  cooperate or dominate.  In New Age terminology, it is "service to others" or "service to self".

All human conflict boils down to this: some people do not want to respect other people, but they instead want to control, dominate, abuse or destroy other people. They want to be takers rather than givers. They want to be predators or parasites, rather than producers. They see this as an easier way to get what they want or need (and they are right, for it always easier to take than to make).  They see predation as a superior way to think and live, and it is the superior way for the few to gain power and possessions at the expense of the many. If this is the goal, then predation is the best means to achieve that goal.

The principle of taking what they want from others is a philosophy that they have chosen, and they will not be easily turned from it. They have most likely observed different philosophies in action, including benevolent philosophies of love and non-violence, and they have willfully rejected those philosophies as wrong, weak or ineffective. The only way to keep these people from controlling, dominating, abusing or destroying other people is with decisive physical force. If they survive this physical termination of their destructive behavior, then they may have the opportunity to rethink their philosophy, and repent, and become producers instead of predators or parasites. But the physical termination of their destructive behavior MUST COME FIRST, and their possible repentance and moral change MAY come later. This is a moral imperative that must be followed, just as surely as a doctor must stop the bleeding of an injury, or remove the tumor of a cancer, before any healing can occur.

posted by GoldenMean on May 29, 2017 at 8:27 AM | link to this | reply

Aba

Just saying hi. Will read later.

posted by RPresta on May 29, 2017 at 2:10 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Anib

Thank you GM ever so much. Arriving at an understanding, the justifcation or otherwise, will all stem from everyone's help and sincerity of approach to seeking. Its one thing to do something meaningfully than to criticise scholarly. Cheersto you too.

posted by anibanerjee on May 28, 2017 at 10:51 PM | link to this | reply

Anib

Karma, among many other things,  is assuredly a paradox,  and a dilemma, which we are all trying to understand,  without much help from our cosmic superiors.  So please take your time,  and let us arrive at an understanding together........ Cheers

posted by GoldenMean on May 28, 2017 at 10:24 PM | link to this | reply

Re: GoldenMean and Kabu

This seems to be getting interesting, and the questions are equally pushing and demanding. I fully agree that evil exists in all its various ugly manifestations, and the gods of all religions conjointly are unable to effectively tackle the red-eyed black-bearded devil. By that token God is not all-powerful (His kindness is an obstacle And weakness unlike that of the devil), rather, it seems that the Devil himself and alone can score over all gods ganging up against him together. Being not omnipotent, He is then lame-legged. Our Laws too, would appear circumscribed and bound, and the devilish followers (like the Jihadis) can lead their wild desires to woods and caves and think that all but savages are slaves. Actually this is the irony of it all, but true. The irony is that those who are themselves savages are convinced with their false belief that the nonbelievers of their 'religion' are their slaves. The Devil is very careful, never does it ever miss an opportunity to go on adding force to its ranks. We see this happening in the case of Muslim fanatics engaging in senseless killings, all, ultimately, for the sake of nothing. On top of this, they are so jubilant and remorseless a tribe that one wonders at their audacity, 'are they humans'?  But, when to sin our biased nature leans, the careful Devil is still at hands with means and pimps  for ill desires, so that it can cater to evil desires the slut of its/their choice. Evil probably has even greater power than the good to attract their own kind. I think that could be a possible answer. How karma can deal with this impassé, I'll probably attempt in another post on Karma. That it (karma) has not, will appear to be paradoxical, so some fine tuning will have to be done at our ends.

posted by anibanerjee on May 28, 2017 at 10:08 PM | link to this | reply

Clarification:  concerning  "their abuse of the caste system",  I mean the parent's abuse of the caste system,  not the daughter and lover, who were innocent,  as you pointed out,  and I fully agree. 

posted by GoldenMean on May 28, 2017 at 6:54 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Kab

I can wait.

posted by Kabu on May 28, 2017 at 6:43 PM | link to this | reply

I will echo Kabu's comment,  what about evil that is not checked,  over a long lifetime of severely abusing others  (slaves).  Did those slaves perhaps deserve it?  Let us say that they did not deserve it.  Then I am pretty sure your answer will be that the abusive slave owner will,  in a future life,  be born as a slave himself and be abused,  or some equivalent suffering that Karma will select for him.  Thus,  future evil will be used to pay for past evil. 

My argument is that the evil could be checked  (stopped),  and should be checked by  1) the slaves themselves,  who could have justifiably killed the owner,  or perhaps just escaped to get away from him,   2) the owner's family,  who must have seen and heard the severe abuse,  but did not have the moral backbone to stand up to their patriarch,  or 3) divine or cosmic observers,  of whatever description,  be they angels of various ranks,  departed ancestors,  guardian angels,  spirit guides,  or perhaps God,  who Jesus taught is watching over his children at every moment,  and is aware of everything that happens to us. 

Also,  my friend Anibanerjee,  I understand that to you,  Karma is as immutable a law as Gravity,  and that is a really excellent analogy.  But there is a great difference.  Gravity is a physical law, with no moral implications.  Gravity deals with up and down forces,  not good and evil forces.  Gravity operates the same whether the universe has any life in it,  or not.  But when life such as us in introduced,  things get messy,  and the philosophers and theologians and gurus cannot even agree on what is good,  and what is evil. 

That is why my criticism of karmic justice  (and divine justice)  only concerns murder,  or unjustified killing.  Murder is considered extreme evil by the vast majority of humanity.  In your excellent scenario of the actual crime in your town,  with the parents hiring killers to kill their daughter's betrothed lover  (because of their abuse of the caste system),  I would say that someone with knowledge of their deadly intent,  on Earth or above,  could have and should have stopped the killers,  I don't care how,  though I am sure that they richly deserve to be killed themselves. 

This would have dismayed the parents,  and if their plot were widely publicized,  they might suffer immediate consequences themselves,  from just the people around them.  I assume that these  'honor killings'  are illegal?  Even if many go unpunished?  If everyone involved did their moral duty against the exposed parents,  they would suffer immediate consequences.  

So,  you see,  the slow and cumbersome system of karmic justice  (as well and perfectly as you say it works)  is only necessary,  because we,  all of us,  do not do our full moral duty to love our neighbors as we love ourselves,  and to fight evil when we see it,  as we are able.

posted by GoldenMean on May 28, 2017 at 6:33 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Kab

Wil have to think over. I am not one who knows all answers, Lol 

posted by anibanerjee on May 28, 2017 at 6:27 PM | link to this | reply

but what about evil that is not checked. What about Oh I don't know, someone who owns slaves and treats them cruelly in a society that approves. These people and maybe the mans animald live in misery and die cruel deaths yet their owner lives out his life with a beautiful family and dies peacefully in his sleep and is spoken of foever as a great man. What is this man's karma.

posted by Kabu on May 28, 2017 at 5:16 PM | link to this | reply

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