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Re: The Saint.
With or without kids you are qualified to comment, Michael.
posted by
elinjo
on January 19, 2010 at 12:48 AM
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Re: Nautikos. require a book etc.
Yes, this is a topic that requires not just one book, but a whole library. I too wonder, whether the teacher was blind, deaf or dumb or merely considered that her duties were confined to the 3 Rs.
posted by
elinjo
on January 19, 2010 at 12:38 AM
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I don't have kids myself, so I don't feel qualified to offer a comment, but it is very interesting to read the views of everyone who commented. Michael
posted by
The_Saint
on January 18, 2010 at 10:18 PM
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The lack of discipline at home normally gives rise to bullies I think Betty..always a need to undermine the helpless. You know I have not hit my kids till now!!
Hope you are doing fine Betty.
posted by
shobana
on January 18, 2010 at 6:34 PM
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I've never been a proponent of physically disciplining children, so I like this one a lot.
posted by
FormerStudentIntern
on January 18, 2010 at 3:11 PM
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Elinjo
I have time only for a short comment, even though this would require a book to deal with adequately.
In the most simple terms: yes, she was wrong in slapping that child! In her stead, I would have raised hell with the teacher and the school (and when I raise hell, I raise HELL, LOL, even though I never shout...) a long time before this event (her kid had been bullied for a long time); why didn't she do anything earlier?
Having said that, the judge was also wrong! We cannot simply and wisely view a 'violent' act (or any act) outside of its context - and the judge, in doing that, displayed a sad lack of wisdom...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 18, 2010 at 12:17 PM
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I agree you shouldnt hit another person child, but its a shame kids know if you hit them they can call the cops. My daughter used that one all the time on me
posted by
Lanetay
on January 18, 2010 at 8:08 AM
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There are certainly other ways apart from physical punishment to discipline children. Hope you're doing well.
posted by
Nita09
on January 18, 2010 at 8:06 AM
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Re:Myrrhage- I feel silly.
Don't feel silly! That case is mind-boggling isn't it? The judge presumably just wanted to make an example of her, so that other people don't take the law into their own hands. Yes, she'll have a record now. I don't know what they will do to stop that boy from bullying others, but if the class teacher's any good she/he will pay attention to the social dynamics in the class. It's a grotesque situation, I agree with you.
posted by
elinjo
on January 18, 2010 at 7:04 AM
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I feel silly.
So I went back and re-read a previous comment, and then read the article, and it said 20 DAYS, not 20 YEARS. No wonder I was so riled up, lol. Next time I'll practice what I preach and follow the link itself.
Still, the whole idea that it is O.K. to hit children, whereas adults are protected, is ludicrous. Equally ludicrous (not to mention ironic) is this woman doing jail time for attempting to protect her child from a bully. Does this go on her permanent record, a big red stamp that says "Child Abuser"? And what is being done to stop that boy from bullying others?
I swear the whole world has gone stark raving mad.
posted by
myrrhage_
on January 18, 2010 at 6:50 AM
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Re: northsage 45
Even tiny children can understand the word no, if it is said emphatically enough. I agree with your last paragraph; where do we stop?
posted by
elinjo
on January 18, 2010 at 5:57 AM
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Re: myrrhage: It's against the law to spank your spouse.
True, I think that's what it comes down to, getting people to think of alternatives to violence. Violence begets violence. We claim that we wish the wars would stop, but too often our children are raised to believe that violence is the first- and therefore easiest - answer.
(Twenty years does seem VERY harsh though. Around here, rapists get away with much less.)
posted by
myrrhage_
on January 18, 2010 at 5:56 AM
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Re: I know it's not done these days, but when I was a kid I'd say most
Attitudes have changed enormously in that way since we were children.
posted by
elinjo
on January 18, 2010 at 5:53 AM
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myrrhage: It's against the law to spank your spouse.
Yes, children are just miniature people.
There was great deal of debate here before the law about family violence came into force. People were worried that it would encourage children to 'inform'on their parents and that the law would be impossible to implement. However now people seem to accept it and it makes them think of other ways of managing their children.
posted by
elinjo
on January 18, 2010 at 5:51 AM
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It's against the law to spank your spouse.
I very, very rarely feel the need to spank or strike my children in any way, except when they were very small and needed to be pulled out of the street, for example. Trevor is a handful, and prone to bouts of impishness like any high-spirited intelligent child. But spanking has never sat right with me and never will. However, I get compliments all the time on how polite, charming, well-behaved, etc., my children are.
What works for us is a thing we call The Reflection Spot. When they have done something "wrong", they are placed there for a number of minutes to think about what they have done. When I'm satisfied that they can articulate it and are ready to correct themselves, they can come out and join the family. No grudges.
Still, passing laws regarding corporal punishment is a tricky thing indeed. Seems to me that the laws that protect adults should be the same for children. After all, I'm not allowed to spank my husband (and I shudder to think how he really feels about that 
).
posted by
myrrhage_
on January 18, 2010 at 5:38 AM
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I know it's not done these days, but when I was a kid I'd say most
kids were spanked. The problem with corporal punishment is that it can too easily become abusive. Sometimes parents need a time out.
posted by
Pat_B
on January 18, 2010 at 5:33 AM
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posted by
Ariala
on January 18, 2010 at 5:18 AM
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Elinjo,
I have always believed that people aren't for hitting, slapping, pinching or purposely making them to feel pain, if they are not harming me, or themselves. A toddler reaching for a flame, must have the hand gently slapped a few times, and then allowed to burn their own skin, in order to understand the message that fire can be painful. We need to be able to show them that we have their best interests at heart, while humanely teaching them. Once a child can understand the spoken word, it shouldn't be necessary to inflict pain. My son was raised under his parent's belief in this maxim, but turned out to be a scheming sociopath, like his mother, anyway. Some people are just born "damaged" deep in what others would call a soul, and no help can be done for them.
When people say that corporal punishment is necessary, I always ask them, "What will you do, when a spanking or a slap is no longer effective?" Hit them with a board? Give them a shallow stab wound? Burn one hand? if constant escalation of punishment is necessary, eventually you will have to kill them, in order to teach them."
Guy
posted by
northsage_45
on January 18, 2010 at 5:03 AM
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Re: sam444. Thanks.
It certainly puts children on an equal level with regard to protection from assault. Your are right it certainly sends a message.
posted by
elinjo
on January 18, 2010 at 4:04 AM
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I would be furious if an adult struck my child. It did seem as though 20 days in prison was a bit harsh for a slap for me! It will definitely send a message! Shelly
posted by
sam444
on January 18, 2010 at 3:37 AM
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New Zealand has the same law.
However, many parents complain that sometimes a smack on the butt is what kids need.
posted by
Hackthorne19
on January 18, 2010 at 3:18 AM
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