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The points of view I cited are estsablkished in US anti-discrimination law.

...but I'll take credit whenever/wherever I can! 

Enough said.

Yes, the older one gets and the crankier the more-contrary one's observations are.


posted by majroj on September 23, 2009 at 12:13 AM | link to this | reply

The hijab was not much of a problem when it was a personal choice, it turned into a sore point when it became mandatory by law in such countries as Saudi Arabia and Iran, that set a dangerous precedence, soon there were countries that outlawed wearing it especially in public institutes. The other problem is the "holier than thou" attitude that many Hijab wearers adopt, the implication being that those who do not wear it are heading straight to hell, and in many cases Muslim societies and communities judge women by whether they are veiled or not : the former being saints and the latter are immoral. This does not apply to all societies or people but it is fast becoming the general way of categorizing women. Naturally, those who are not veiled, like me for example, who have had to go against the current to defend our right not to wear the hijab are not very pleased when veiled women try to portray themselves as victims. They as a collective are GENERALLY not very tolerant of others and should not cry wolf when they are dealt the same treatment.

posted by lindo on September 22, 2009 at 10:01 AM | link to this | reply

It never fails to amaze me that people make such a fuss about headscarves. It's what goes on in a person's head that counts, not what they choose to cover it with. The more fuss people make about this issue, the more women will choose to adopt hijabs. 

posted by elinjo on September 22, 2009 at 12:00 AM | link to this | reply

Majroj ... You make an excellent devil's advocate
and I mean that as a real compliment as not many people can argue for what might be considered an unpopular view the way you did.  I am a firm believer in the "may the best job applicant win!", I hope this does not lead to many people hiring conservative Muslims because the are afraid of discrimination lawsuits rather than them being the best people for the job.

posted by lindo on September 21, 2009 at 12:16 AM | link to this | reply

I agree, but in court things can get twisted if the judge decides to.

It all hinges upon proving the employer's perception, and what constitutes a reasonable accomodation.

If the employer perceives that an individual's actions make them generically undesireable, even if the applicant is otherwise qualified, ther is a case perhaps. If the job requires certain things which are spelled out in the hiring process to all applicants and the applicant fails to meet them, no discrimination. If the applicant can do those things but the employer is afraid "The Jew" will favor his friends, "The Spic" will steal, "The Mic" will arrive drunk and stay that way, or "The Woman" will gossip and weep most of the day, then the employer IS prejudiced.

The young like to ram barriers. Sometimes it needs a little ramming.

posted by majroj on September 20, 2009 at 11:29 PM | link to this | reply

The gal who works in the office for my property management company wears a scarf and I don't see where there is a problem! She is adorable and the most helpful of all! God bless you, too!!! sam

posted by sam444 on September 20, 2009 at 12:02 PM | link to this | reply

Most employers in Arizona DO allow Muslims to take breaks to pray.

I don't see it causing problems in Most Business situations.....and a head scarf is nothing but a woman's or girl's choice, or her parents' choice for her and she should be able to work anywhere that anyone else can work.

This young lady, however, went there, A & F, on a mission and hopes to get college tuition money or business start up money in her settlement, I'm thinking. I won't walk into That naughty store myself. Their photos irritate me, huge and blatant and in your face in family malls, pretty graphic poop.


posted by benzinha on September 20, 2009 at 11:47 AM | link to this | reply

Such unfortunate situations. Wish we could all get along.

posted by FormerStudentIntern on September 20, 2009 at 11:14 AM | link to this | reply

Let me ask you this Majroj
If you had tow Muslim girls applying for this same job : one a Mohajjaba  (veiled) and the other one isn't, and they took the girl that did not wear her faith on her head so to speak, how would her argument hold? I think that people tolerate Muslims as people but they are not necessarily obliged to accommodate every aspect of the religion. What if a Muslim employee wants to take breaks during working hours to pray, is the management obliged to allow him that even if it is against the interests of the employer? would they be facing discrimination charges as well? 

What really annoys me is that Islam is a very flexible faith, some have chosen the most rigid interpretation of it and want to shove it down the throats of Moderate Muslims and non-Muslims alike!

We have all faced rejection applying for a job, be it for being the wrong age, with the wrong attitude, or of the wrong gender, or just because we have  small children. The damage that girl endured could not have been more than the pain that anyone feels when not getting a job, it is a shame her parents did not teach her that life is like that. She should stop whining and search for a job elsewhere!


posted by lindo on September 19, 2009 at 11:03 PM | link to this | reply

A case could be made since the hijab is customarily Muslim
that they are anti-Islamic. I agree with you, though, this was to make a point and it was like shooting fish in a barrel.

posted by majroj on September 19, 2009 at 7:12 PM | link to this | reply

Eveerything in moderation Majroj
But then again what why is a conservative Muslim applying a job when she knows their image? I think she was just trying to make a point, baiting them in fact. Anyone can get rejected at an interview for any kind of reason, why is judging them on the way they dress is singled out as discrimination. 

posted by lindo on September 19, 2009 at 9:06 AM | link to this | reply

Abercrombie and Fitch is missing a great opportunity.

Selling naked teenagers to Western markets is silly and self-injurious. They ought to get with marketing to the world of Islam.

I'm imagining an A&F catalogue of burkhas.....(Al Franken once summoned the image of the Dallas Cheerleaders doing their routine in burkha so they could perform in Iraq).

How can an observant family bring their children through an average grocery store checkout line with the amount of skin and prurience on the magazine racks there? (Hard enough with the candy!).

posted by majroj on September 19, 2009 at 8:40 AM | link to this | reply

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