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There are a few things none of you is addressing here.
There are several types of single mothers. There are many who have to raise children on their own and work hard to keep food in the mouths, clothing on the backs and a roof over their heads. These are the ones to laud, as the NYT has.
We forget that women are victims disproportionately. Fast talking men can persuade young girls easily.
We also forget that adolescence is quite a time. You probably ignore the fact that your adolescent children have been somewhat sexually active. You have probably had quarrels over adolescent issues.
Mr. Obama was stating a fact about certain segments of society. The problem, though, isn't racial; it's economic, for lower economic classes across the board suffer the same problem as addressed here: young adolescent girls getting pregnant by young boys who are only interested in the thrill and not being responsible for the child that is the result.
We have a lower income African Community that suffers as a result. Children having children. (And, RSM, who are you to advocate that these women "close their legs" -- you are not in their place). These young girls don't know the first thing about responsibility for a family. A lot of times, it's their mothers than have to .
What we have mostly is lack of education -- and you know that sex is not a good subject in school -- you shouldn't be educating kids on these things -- just let them learn for themselves. (sarcasm for those of you might not get it).
What we need are good older role models in the community to help change these lives. There are good private social service agencies that attempt to deal with problems, helping young teenage mothers move out of where they are at, with moderate success (one 14-yr old girl was helped to eventually get a college degree -- quite good.
Another problem is the problem is largely ignored. It doesn't affect us, or so we think. But it does affect us, with auto theft, other robberies, killings, etc. The news stories of violence are not restricted to a certain territory -- it spills out into other live, also.
It seems odd, but all these liberal programs act to lift people out of such a problematic situation as we understand lower income African-Americans (and others) are in. Many people have lifted themselves out of situations and become contributing members of society. Without aid of some sort, this would have been impossible, if not difficult.
More has to be done to provide alternatives to the destructive lifestyles Where there is an alternative, there are young people growing up assuming more responsibility in their lives and there is more hope, taking these young people out of an environment of sex, drugs, gangs and violence.
The main problem is shunting the problems to the side and denying their existence. The solution is involvement.
posted by
Xeno-x
on February 14, 2009 at 12:27 PM
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Well-said Kooka...
hope the others feel free to express their point of view as articulately, and without personal insults, as you've just done...and I commend you for that...also, for the record, me, an Indian American, have been a single Dad of two adorable young ladies for two decades..they are among the pride of our community..so go figure, so much for overgeneralizations, best wishes, Ash
posted by
ash_pradhan
on February 14, 2009 at 11:46 AM
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RSM, you really don't want me taking your serisouly do you?
There are many, many problems with those numbers just as there are many, many problems with so many other statistics. And I know someone as brainwashed as you cannot grasp the simple fact that I do not have to agree with everything Obama does or says in order to support him. I don't blindly follow the man and I don't believe his every word and action is going to be gold. I know that is how your viewed Bush and you made it very clear that you were so unable to think for yourself that you had to praise every great mistake Bush made that helps to destroy our country from the inside.
Do I claim those numbers are wrong? Well any statistics like that are going to be inaccurate to begin with. Just saying children raised without a father leaves out far too many variables. Right now my son's best friend is being raised by a single mother, yet this kid is not going to be any form of a burden to our society and I highly doubt he will become a criminal. Obama is a politician, no different that others to come before him from both sides, who found statistics that he could use to press a point he wanted to make. I do not care for such games, but ALL politicians play them, even you precious Republicans, and it is just something that like or dislike we have to accept.
Also, those numbers are based on where we are coming from, not where we are at. We as a society have been far to conservatives in our attitudes about single mothers in the past and that has created certain stigmas that are not as strong now. I would put forth the claim that in the future we will see less of this as our attitudes improve and we realize just how much of the problem has been caused by the generalizations that you seem to wish to promote in order to put people down for not being like y
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 14, 2009 at 9:52 AM
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Statistics are not the problem...
it's how one chooses to interprete them...rarely is anything 100% this or that way...rarely is anything exactly 50% either way...that being the result of the random variables we live under on this planet...thus, both sides of an argument have usually some truth & hence validity to it, that is if one chooses to point that out...what is generally unacceptable in a civil society is people personally bashing each other over the point of view they choose to support...anyway, it's still an intellectual argument that can be informative / entertaining...but hurtful, personal insults are crude & unacceptable...I must say that all of you guys bring up socially / politically relevant subjects, so your apparently sincere efforts are not wasted, best wishes,
posted by
ash_pradhan
on February 14, 2009 at 7:41 AM
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Re: RSM, that was badly thought out even for you
From the very words of the one you voted for and supported, the one you said was an intelligent man, in the 2008 election president Hussein Obama.
Statistics don't lie in this case
In a Father's Day address at the Apostolic Church of God in Chicago, Sen. Barack Obama chose a less than celebratory topic: the absence of men in the lives of many children, especially black children.
"More than half of all black children live in single-parent households, a number that has doubled — doubled — since we were children."
He went on to say that these absent fathers don't realize that "responsibility does not end at conception" and are "acting like boys instead of men."
The absence of fathers is important, Obama continued, because "children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and 20 times more likely to end up in prison."
Rebecca Blank, a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution who studies social and economic policy, wrote in an e-mail that it's difficult to pinpoint the exact causes of the social problems Obama mentions because they're so interrelated.
But solid research has shown that growing up in a single-family household, even if other factors are controlled, has a negative effect.
"I think there are very few social scientists these days who wouldn't agree that children in single-parent households are at risk of a variety of bad outcomes and that family structure has some causal impact on that risk," she wrote.
Kooka, looks like you just called your man, Obama and a woman from the Brookings Institute, liars. Or is it that you are more intelligent than they? To make the comment that you made "I applaud women who are able to raise children on their won and once more, there is NOTHING out there that says their kids are more likely to be criminals or burdens on society." Looks like you have an argument with your pal Obama and a lady whose job it is everyday to study and research these things. Check what you are talking about before spouting the liberal rhetoric, okay?!
posted by
RedStatesMan
on February 13, 2009 at 6:32 PM
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Re: All of you are far from "jerks" in real life...
Ash, thanks for your reasonable presence. What a great dialogue!
posted by
kingmi
on February 13, 2009 at 1:06 PM
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All of you are far from "jerks" in real life...
but we'll let each individual tactfully disclose his / her true self thru their writings.. all of the bloggers here are too sharp to be fooled by anybody for too long...thank you for opening up, I like what I'm seeing, best wishes, Ash
posted by
ash_pradhan
on February 13, 2009 at 10:07 AM
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ash, yes I am opinionated and I have never denied it
Funny thing is I don't think I was really that openly opinionated until I started dealing with those like Red States Man there. I am willing to admit it when I see something of value in what others have to say and in my comment I did say when RSM was had been partial correct. I just refuse to generalize and place all people is such restive categories. It just bothers me to no end to see people who claim to be intelligent use so many stereotypes and make such ignorant generalizations.
I think you'll find that people become more opinionated on sites like Blogit when they can keep a higher level of animosity, knowing that they will most likely never come face to face with most of the people they are dealing with.
I do wonder if those like RSM are as big of a jerks in real life as they come off here.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 13, 2009 at 9:34 AM
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Kooka, your comment below is very powerful, and full of a lot of reality...
and hence largely true...none of you are "stupid", but actually quite wise & caring about the society enough to wanna publicly stick your necks out on a respected blog like this...but I must say, you all tend to be a bit "opinionated", enough to not wanna concede some of the good points the other is making..I'm wrting this not as a reprimand of any of you guys, but in the sincere hope of learning something useful for everybody, best wishes,
posted by
ash_pradhan
on February 13, 2009 at 9:25 AM
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ash_pradhan
I agree with you there for the most part. However I would editing you opening to read " raising a healthy family is primarily the responsibility of responsible adults who hold the well being of the child as upmost importance." Just being biologically related does not make one the best choice to raise the child. I have seen too many times where the biological parent should not be allowed near the child. And often if a single mother or father is dedicated enough, they will be able to find ways to be more than enough of a parents to raise a healthy child. Beyond that, there is a great truth to ''it take a village to raise a child' and the more you surround yourself with healthy adults who are going to be positive influences on your child, the more you are going to see help that child.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 13, 2009 at 9:19 AM
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RSM, that was badly thought out even for you
More and more women are making the choice to have children without having a husband and there is NOTHING wrong with that at all. Or would you rather force all woman to take a husband if they wish to have children? Sure some have made poor choices and the man ran out on them (Which is not the woman's fault, but the man's). I applaud women who are able to raise children on their won and once more, there is NOTHING out there that says their kids are more likely to be criminals or burdens on society. It has nothing to do with just being single mother.
Due to al the BS conservative ideas that have weakened people's ability to think for themselves and their ability to make good decisions, society has to take a level of the blame. I mean if we for focus on teaching sex education correctly and promoted the idea of birth control and true responsibility for our actions (all of which goes against the tyrannical mind-controlling concepts that are the base for all fundamentalist conservative ideas) we might actually be able to get somewhere. But you side doesn't want people being able to make their own choices about their bodies, but instead wish to push concepts that have been PROVEN to not work, such as abstance only ideas. It has been shown that those who are taught intelligent sex education and are given all the option and are told up front all the facts, they are LESS likely have unprotected sex and end up with unwanted babies. Those kids who are not taught fundamentalist conservative ideas are the one most likely to be responsible in their actions.
as for you piss poor logic about what is under lock and key, where the heel have you been living? Stores put things under lock and key because of theft problems. So if cigarettes are under lock and key, then there is higher level of theft connected to them than most other items in the store. At that point here is no deny that smoking has a connection to theft. Those who smoke but can't afford to buy the stuff are so addicted that they will steal it to get their needed fix.
And I won't deny that there are SOME single mothers (Not all) out there who are costing us, but there are also many family with two parents who are costing us just the same.
And just because I know more people than you and am able to associate with a wider variety of individuals and are I guess just more of a people person than you, is not something you really should criticize. I can honestly say that the kids I know who ended up the most screwed up were raised in a middle class household with two parents and were taught very conservative ideas. Due to having no sense of self-value and no sense at all of responsibility for their own actions, they have had a great many run ins with the law. While all the friends I have had who were raised by a single mother have turned out okay. It really is interesting how so many conservatives wish to cling to un-proven stereotypes time and time again to prove their points when most of the time it seems that real life experiences will prove them wrong at every turn.
While I am liberal, I am far from being stupid. Beside, being liberal and stupid could never be as bad as being conservative and stupid. As for knowing right form wrong,. I have seen clearly that I understand those concepts far better than any conservative I have seen here on Blogit. I mean to foolishly think that the Bible should be your guide for right and wrong is about as mindless as it gets and shows a true lack of understanding about such things.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 13, 2009 at 9:12 AM
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Re:
High five mordent! You tell'em! Weak little sniveling liberals.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on February 12, 2009 at 6:31 PM
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Parenting is tough, joint or single...raising a healthy family is...
primarily the rsponsibility of the biological father, mother & child...sensibly offering assistance to under-privileged individuals results in betterment of the society as a whole...in any case, labeling / blaming / stereotyping remain unproductive...as far as smoking, it's bad, period, for a variety of reasons.
posted by
ash_pradhan
on February 12, 2009 at 11:26 AM
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What Coulter is really getting at is that single-motherhood is not an example to follow. And it is liberalism that glorifies single parenting.
Liberals are anti-family because liberal women have bigger balls than liberal men who are basically gay. Family and liberal just don't go together. Too much selfishness and role confusion.
posted by
mordent
on February 12, 2009 at 10:36 AM
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Re: Coulter is a truly mentally ill woman
Um, liberal kooka, I think your logic is clouding your mind once again. There are many a merchandise that are under lock and key. From your so-called logic I guess the fact that videos and video games that are under lock and key are that way due to a massive influx of smokers? You actually think that single mothers are not costing you and I in our taxes? If so where have you been son?
You think that children raised without a Dad do not have more of a chance at crime? Again, where have you been son? It is always funny how you choose to back up your liberal theories by stating that you know someone who proves you are right! After years here on blogit I have learned one thing for certain...you know more people than anyone on the planet. Liberal and stupid is no way to go through life! This is why we must all understand we have responsibilities and must know right from wrong.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on February 11, 2009 at 7:50 PM
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Option?
"I do not grasp the argument the way Coulter does, but she leaves out the most obvious fact, that smokers have the option to quit."
It always makes me laugh when it comes to a woman having an abortion then her body is her 'domain' and she has the right to do whatever she wants to do with her body. So since her body is her 'domain' then doesn't the domain have the 'option' to close its' legs? As the previous comment was made about 'logic' then isn't it logical that if the domain can open its' legs for an abortion then it also reserves the right to close its' legs upon receiving?
Of course I am displaying the stupidity of the liberal thought process here. Sure people make mistakes in their lives but you must be responsible for your own actions. From what you stated and the previous liberal comment then it is as if your body rules your mind. Do not get me wrong, I was once young too but I always let my mind tell me what is right and wrong here. I know that if somone gets married and has kids then it does not work out then this is what you have but you and I both know that the majority of what is being talked about here are women who have never been married.
The next thing about your post that I do not understand is that there is no mention of the man. Men have responsibilities as well. It as much their responsibility as it is the woman's if not more. However, what is really going on here is some hot shot stupid young male who can not think past the length of his **** then a woman who actually believes he loves her. Sounds like a liberal thought process to me. Let the good times roll, it is alway society's fault and no one has their own responsibility. How pathetic!
posted by
RedStatesMan
on February 11, 2009 at 7:42 PM
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Coulter is a truly mentally ill woman
The big problem is that there are too many conservative minded people who do not like to think for themselves who listen to her.
Of course this is one argument that shows that Coulter has the intelligence of a dead skunk. There is no logic there at all. To claim smokers don't encourage crime? There is a reason as to why most places have to lock up their cigarettes now days, and I can promise you that it is not the non-smokers who the stores are worried about here. And we the people are paying for all those people who get cancer from smoking as health care costs rise. And then of course there is NO logic at all to defend the idea that kids raised by a single moms are going to commit crimes or be any kind of burden on society. I know a good deal of people who were raised by a single parent for whatever reasons and they are not in jail or on welfare.
Ann Coulter is an insult to this country and the more publicity she gets the worse we as a country end up looking.
posted by
kooka_lives
on February 11, 2009 at 2:30 PM
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