Comments on The Reality Of Non-Belief In The Modern World

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Re: This has created really interesting debate and I've had a great time

Kabu, words of wisdom.  I love what you've said here.

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 20, 2008 at 11:47 AM | link to this | reply

This has created really interesting debate and I've had a great time

reading your thoughts and the comments. I am actually a Christian love but one with my own brand of faith. I'm not particularly "good" so I suppose I'm not what should be termed a good ambassador. I don't go to Church, can't abide a lot of em.

I wrote a poem for Justi once and put it on my site. It pretty much sums up how I feel. I just think that we should all try to love. each other and the world. Love brings respect, and respect brings a ballance of order. with love comes sharing and caring.  

posted by Kabu on February 19, 2008 at 6:36 PM | link to this | reply

Re: FYS

And that's the best attitude, Sira!  Thank you!  the whole concept of members of religious groups judging others for their decisions regarding faith is just another example of groupthink, a concept about which I've posted before.  Groupthinkers are looking for acceptance, not truth. 

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 15, 2008 at 1:28 PM | link to this | reply

FYS

I agree with most of what you say, and I've been labeled a non-believer by many.

But the truth of the matter is this: I believe and have faith in God, not religion! I am secure in my relationship with this greater power, not because I attend church or worship him, but because I have love and acceptance in my heart, and govern myself accordingly.

If religious groups want to judge me because I don't read their bibles or agree with their rules, that's okay with me. I forgive them for their ignorance.

posted by Sira890 on February 15, 2008 at 11:54 AM | link to this | reply

Re:

Offy thanks for reading.

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 15, 2008 at 11:19 AM | link to this | reply

I believe in God and I don't try to change anyone's belief system. If they don't believe that's their option...

posted by Offy on February 15, 2008 at 9:11 AM | link to this | reply

Re:

hi Sinome, thanks for reading!

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 15, 2008 at 9:09 AM | link to this | reply

Re: You have a good point!

hi Whacky, thanks for the thumbs up........and........HI BO!!!

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 15, 2008 at 9:09 AM | link to this | reply

Re:

sam, thank you for your comment---If every christian thought this way, I would not have bothered to write this post.

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 15, 2008 at 9:09 AM | link to this | reply

Re: I agree that there's been several irrational Christians come through and

Where we disagree is upon the following: I don't believe that the call of a Christian is to defend the bible, prove anything about Jesus's existence, show evidence, etc.  This is nice, but it should not be the central focus of what Christian life is all about. 

It's the marginalized that require the attention of the Christian--the minority, not the mainstream.

Which brings me to my original point:  the non-believer is telling us loud and clear that, even though the reason for their initial decision to not believe varies quite widely, Christian behavior serves as overwhelming evidence that their decision is correct, no matter what we might write, say, preach or argue.

So therefore, as Christians, the decision should be to be a better example through our sincere desire for friendship with everyone, regardless their beliefs.  On this site, friendship is expressed by reading a piece throroughly and objectively, and then offering conversation (whether it be through agreement or debate) in comment discussions.

This site isn't the priority for most of our lives, and it shouldn't be.  But while I'm here, I'd rather be the disciple than be popular.

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 15, 2008 at 9:07 AM | link to this | reply

 Great post :-)

posted by Sinome on February 14, 2008 at 9:15 PM | link to this | reply

You have a good point!

A smile from me and from BO! =^. .^=

posted by Whacky on February 14, 2008 at 6:37 PM | link to this | reply

Rhetoric is fine, but I choose to be known by my works. I only need to please God, the rest is mute!  sam

posted by sam444 on February 14, 2008 at 4:57 PM | link to this | reply

I agree that there's been several irrational Christians come through and

make everyone look bad...but there are antagonists on both sides.  I haven't been around to read much between either sides lately, so I have no idea what's going on currently...today I indulged a bit more on Blogit than I have in a long time as I am waiting to hear back with instructions on two writing jobs...

I have a burden to share what I share.  Like you, I don't expect to change unbelievers minds (anymore.)  I do have a burden to uphold the Bible which so many nonbelievers here in the past (haven't read any lately) mocked.  I'm here to show Jesus was a real person and so forth...I'm here to show there is PLENTY of evidence upon which Christians base their faith.  I guess I hope to strengthen the faith of believers by the evidence I share and encourage us all along...If I've offended some in the process, it certainly wasn't my intention...but I don't apologize for standing up for my beliefs even if they go against the majority (or minority) here.

I think we agree on most points. 

posted by Ariala on February 14, 2008 at 2:52 PM | link to this | reply

Re: FineYoungSinger - I'm with Kooka on this one and as you have stated in your

Thanks for reading, gomedome.

Over the past several months, you and I have been engaged in a variety of discussions.  Sometimes we get a little heated.  But never, gomedome, have you insulted, berated, ridiculed or mistreated me the way I've seen others mistreat you when disagreeing with you.  FLAT OUT.

Eloquent as ever, your summation of prejudicial attack is very well said, and the entire point of my post.

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 14, 2008 at 2:50 PM | link to this | reply

Re: FYS, that statement I made that they don't follow the standard of love,

Regarding non-believers "making fun of Christians":  I don't see that at all; I do, however, see very intelligent people fighting back when they are judged, misquoted, disrespected, misunderstood, talked down to and discriminated against.  Back when I first joined this site, one of Blogit's better-known Atheists challenged me to read his entire body of work on this site; of course, I abliged him (including the comments).  Most often, the attacks came from the Christians, not from him.  If, in his RESPONSE, he happened to lash out...well, torment a cat and see if it doesn't scratch.

As far as the questions you've posed: are they an effort to spin what I've written and turn the argument around? 

My post is clear.

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 14, 2008 at 2:42 PM | link to this | reply

FineYoungSinger - I'm with Kooka on this one and as you have stated in your

comments; there are far more reasons why people do not believe in God.

But it is fair to say that the attrocious behavior of some people that you allude to in this post, is a major impediment to anyone considering their words as anything but hollow. Over my time here on Blogit, I can honestly say that I have never seen the like of what I have witnessed in behaviour from some people in this category. Certainly it is only a handful of people that are aggressive antagonists but the endorsement of others is the dissapointing part.

Your not so tongue in cheek list of: "acceptable targets of prejudice" is also an important aspect. If an individual is in one of these targeted groups, the natural level of disdain they will develop towards those who would proliferate these prejudices, simply becomes another impediment.   

posted by gomedome on February 14, 2008 at 2:32 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Okay

Hi thoughtfulness, thanks for reading.  If you took this personally, I assure you that was not my intention.  The call to holiness among Christians is more often than not viewed as a personal attack.  Our humility should allow us to see these kinds of challenges, as well as the challenges presented by the non-believer (in whom God dwells whether he/she believes it or not), as opportunities for growth.

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 14, 2008 at 2:07 PM | link to this | reply

FYS, that statement I made that they don't follow the standard of love,

was what is often quoted by Christians...I should have put it in quotes.  And many of my atheist friends are more moral than my Christians friends.  I agree...as for this site, the spewing of mockery from those I've read show no better behavior than the Christians they make fun of...guess I'm not impressed with either side myself.

Do you think writing a post and sharing Scripture is talking too much?  We each pay our monthly dues to write and if by sharing our convictions we are talking too much then I suppose most Christians would do well not to have a post on this site? 

posted by Ariala on February 14, 2008 at 1:54 PM | link to this | reply

Okay

Just count me out of the  majority of believers club, and the we believers club

posted by thoughtfulness on February 14, 2008 at 1:46 PM | link to this | reply

Re: I've often posted on this subject in the past, but true unbelief isn't

Struggling with sin is not the point of my post.  Even the staunchest of atheists can see when they've made a mistake, and will admit their mistakes it freely.

You state: "[non-believers] don't follow the standard of love and the rules/laws of Christianity."  I submit to you that I've personally encountered more Christian behavior from non-believers than from believers on this site.

You state: "It's sad really that in the efforts of evangelism, those with the best intentions are accused of being horrible people."  Evangelization efforts die when there is little or no action to back it up.  If Christians REALLY want to evangelize, they'll do less talking the talk and do more walking the walk.

I'm a firm believer that nothing I say, quote, present or write will ever change the heart of a non-believer.  But guess what?  It's not our job as a Christian to change hearts.  We don't witness to the non-believer by running our mouths and spouting scripture.

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 14, 2008 at 1:42 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Good post

Thank you for commenting, kooka.  Glad to see that you get my point.  I of course realize that the reasons for non-belief in God varies extensively from person to person.

The non-believer is not the only affected party, either.  People that church-hop & denomination-hop most often leave their churches because of the horrid behavior of a priest, pastor, parishoner, clique, or staff member.

posted by FineYoungSinger on February 14, 2008 at 1:13 PM | link to this | reply

I've often posted on this subject in the past, but true unbelief isn't

contingent on the whims of emotions (including how others act.)  True unbelief is based on reason and the facts.  Those who choose not to believe in God based on the bad behaviors of His followers are as silly as those Christians who refuse to believe scientific facts because those who propose them are atheists who hate Christianity.

I do believe, however, that behavior can be good or bad despite the belief or unbelief of a person, and that instead of supporting the cause of unbelievers because they're right in calling Christians out for being rascals, these same non-believers could show how much better they are by behaving better themselves.  The fact is, they can't and they won't.  We make excuses for them because, after all, they don't follow the standard of love and the rules/laws of Christianity.  They don't know God...meanwhile, we agree with them and become "evil surmisers" of our own brothers and sisters.  Perhaps if we would try to see the best in others, we wouldn't be quick to side with either groups, and instead would seek out what God has in mind and follow it, no matter the consequences (and the failures.)

Anyone who follows God will be a hypocrite because he isn't perfect yet.  He still struggles with sin.  He still struggles with human nature.  Just because he shares the Bible and the truth, that doesn't make him any better than anyone else.  Saying that someone thinks himself better just because he shares the Bible is another excuse that keeps unbelievers proudly herding together against followers of God.

It's sad really that in the efforts of evangelism, those with the best intentions are accused of being horrible people.  They may or may not be, but true objective people on either side find the truth and believe it despite the imperfections of the messenger.  At least that's what I've always believed and I could be wrong.

posted by Ariala on February 14, 2008 at 1:01 PM | link to this | reply

Good post

posted by kooka_lives on February 14, 2008 at 12:46 PM | link to this | reply