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I know plenty of people in the "enlightened" US of A who would agree with
yon clerics, Corbin. They wear the sign of the cross and point to biblical passages for justification, their god-given dominion over women. A very unfortunate thing, that. But you bring up a salient point. That Islam is by no means a tolerant religion, but a selectively tolerant religion. Of course, that is unless you count the Wahabbists and their extreme fundamentalist ilk, which is intolerance codified and actualized. But this relegation of women to second and third-grade citizens, to positions no better than a procreating household slave, without education and without any real power, is as repugnant as it is ridiculous.
posted by
saul_relative
on May 7, 2007 at 10:01 PM
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WHAT CERTAIN MUSLIMS ARE DOING IS WRONG -- AND WRONG IS WRONG
However, it is also wrong to put their actions out there (even if you did issue a disclaimer) and make it seem that Muslims are the only ones like that -- by 1) pointing out certain Muslim clerics and their speech, and 2) excluding the actions of others, you seem to be saying that 1) Muslim clerics preach hatred and 2) Muslims alone are guilty of these things.
Lets see -- would you say all Christians are like Jim Jones? you certainly would not. then why infer almost by association that all Muslim Clerics are like those you have listed here?
"All lions are cats, but not all cats are lions."
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 30, 2007 at 2:22 PM
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TAPS.....
I think that is a reference to the .00000005 cents I earn each day Xeno stops by.....unless he is coming in the back door of "commentland"........
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 30, 2007 at 6:14 AM
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Corbin_Dallas
What is meant here by "I guess you are enjoying my money"?
posted by
TAPS.
on April 30, 2007 at 5:59 AM
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OMG Corbin...your last comment to Xeno is F U N N Y!
Maybe humor can get you two together! LOL
posted by
RckyMtnActivist
on April 30, 2007 at 5:46 AM
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Xeno......
Shooo...
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 30, 2007 at 5:41 AM
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Actually Xeno........
I think you come here because you like the crowds.......it's lonely in your "goose-egg" world..... ......
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 30, 2007 at 5:37 AM
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one more thing
I have heard Christian ministers speak similarly, using passages from the Bible, maybe not as far as beating, but keeping women in a subservient role.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 30, 2007 at 5:34 AM
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Re: I GUESS YOU ARE ENJOYING MY MONEY
looks like they are overlooking this. women have been and are second-class citizens in this "Christian" country of ours. It has taken protests and marches for over a century for women to gain this second-class status.
and now our so-called "supporters" of women, reviling certain Moslems for the way they treat women, are coming out against the Equal Rights Amendment.
they are so above Muslims -- actually they make me puke.
the only reason i comment here is that I saw my name among the comments and your comments.
they want to fan the fires of a religious war. that's all
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 30, 2007 at 5:32 AM
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Re: corbin - -you say actions speak louder than words -- funny that's what
Nice Comment!
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 30, 2007 at 5:30 AM
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corbin - -you say actions speak louder than words -- funny that's what I've
been saying about Christians.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 30, 2007 at 5:26 AM
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Re: OH I WROTE ONE COMMENT AND DISAPEAR ABOUT YOUR FRIEND
That's really nice....but would you care to link to a verifiable source for these claims???
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 29, 2007 at 7:30 AM
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Yeah I would like to show these holy men what this American woman would do if they decided to beat me...They wouldn't wake up in the morning, I would make sure that cobra was full of venom they would sleep with!
posted by
Offy
on April 29, 2007 at 4:40 AM
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Corin
thanks for your kindness and greet post . wish to see any rules for a men in Kuran in your next post , because this world not only women . also have milions of men .
you are so merciful one thanks Corbin . 
posted by
Rosetree
on April 29, 2007 at 4:33 AM
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good post corbin
have any rules if a man not obey islam rules what punishments for them ?
for the shake of one god may you explain this too ?
posted by
Rosetree
on April 29, 2007 at 4:29 AM
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OH I WROTE ONE COMMENT AND DISAPEAR ABOUT YOUR FRIEND
MAY BE ONE DAY YOUR BUSH WILL USE MY WORDS AS THAT DAY HE USED SOME BLOGGERS WORDS WHICH SERVE HIS POLITICS
NOW THIS IS SOME OF RIGHT FOR WOMEN IN ISLAM DON'T WORRY I WILL DISCUSS IT BY DETAILS AND I THINK THAT YOU KNOW NOW THAT WHEN I SAY I DO
So, to conclude, these are the ideals to which Muslim women can aspire and frequently have done in the past. In a truly Islamic society, they are guaranteed
- personal respect, - respectable married status, - legitimacy and maintenance for their children, - the right to negotiate marriage terms of their choice, - to refuse any marriage that does not please them, - the right to obtain divorce from their husbands, even on the grounds that they can't stand them (Mawdudi), - custody of their children after divorce, - independent property of their own, - the right and duty to obtain education, - the right to work if they need or want it, - equality of reward for equal deeds, - the right to participate fully in public life and have their voices heard by those in power, and much more besides. What other religion, political theory, or philosophy has offered such a comprehensive package
posted by
drohan254
on April 29, 2007 at 2:30 AM
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Re:
Well, that way I can send my CIA buddies over there and re-program you........
Now you just lost all credibility with the "All Arabic"countries statement....and I have several posts in mind to show you why.
We're not talking here about the past....so please don't bring up the Crusades. It's the present we live in and the present that I discuss and post about.
As to American Women Arguing with Men.......LOL. We were emasculated decades ago....ever watch Rosie O'Donnell???
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 29, 2007 at 2:16 AM
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HELOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW /....WHY YOU WANT TO KNOW WHICH COUNTRY ALL ARABIC ISLAMIC COUNTRY GIVES THE FREEDOM FOR WOMEN ...SO WHAT ABOUT WHAT I SAID IN MY PREVIOUS ANSWER REGARDING THE WORKING LADIES ..........TILL NOW I DIDN'T SEE FOR THE VERY CIVILIZED AMERICA ANY PRESIDENT BUT BEFORE CENTURIES LADIES THEY LEAD NATIONS IN ARABIC COUNTRIES .... THEY ARE WORKING AS JUDGES ..SHARING IN GOVERNMENT ...WORKING IN UNIVERSITIES ..AND ENOUGH THAT I'M HERE ARE YOU BLIND
ISLAMIC WOMAN IS ARGUING YOU ..CAN I SEE ANY ONE OF YOUR WOMAN DARE TO DO THAT OR HAVE THE POWER TO DO SO
posted by
drohan254
on April 29, 2007 at 1:58 AM
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Hmmmmm????
I guess I'll have to find another question....but, since you never answer any I ask you......what good would it do?
You're the one with all of the quotes and passages......the only time I have added a passage is the one with this post that accompanied the first video clip I attached......
So Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with Islamic Law? The religious rulings or "fatwahs" don't apply to you? Funny, I always picture it as the Islamic version of "Vatican City".
You must live in a really Westernized Islamic country....or just simply a Western country that affords you these freedoms......why can't you tell us your country....hell, this is the internet..we wouldn't know if it was true or not.
I am in America....there that wasn't so hard.
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 29, 2007 at 1:31 AM
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I GUESS YOU ARE ENJOYING MY MONEY
Islam Gives Men and Women Equal Rights
In reality, and in Islam, the rights and responsibilities of a woman are equal to those of man, but they are not necessarily identical with them. Equality and sameness are two very different things. I think you’ll agree that, for one thing, women and men are physically very different from one another, although they are equal to each other in other important ways.
In the West, women may be doing the same job that men do, but their wages are often less. The rights of Western women in modern times were not created voluntarily, or out of kindness to the female. The modernWestern woman reached her present position by force, and not through natural processes or mutual consent of Divine teachings. She had to force her way, and various circumstances aided her. Shortage of manpower during wars, pressure of economic needs and requirement of industry forced women to leave their homes to work, struggling for their livelihood, to appear equal to men. Whether all women are sincerely pleased with these circumstances, and whether they are happy and satisfied with the results, is a different matter.But the fact remains that whatever rights modern Western women have, they fall short of those of her Muslim counterpart! Islam has given woman what duties her female nature. It gives her full security and protects her against becoming what Western modern women themselves complain against: a "mere sex object."
posted by
drohan254
on April 29, 2007 at 1:30 AM
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OF COURSE MY FRIEND IAM WORKING AND JUST BEFORE HOURS I CAME ALONE BUT I COULDN'T SLEEP ...I'M WRITING TO YOU AND MY FAMILY KNOW THAT I'M WRITING
IF SOME THING IS HAPPENING IN SUDIA ARABIA THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT KORAN ASK FOR IT SO STOP USING ISLAM WORDS .....WHAT DO YOU THINK MAN ARE WE LIVE IN YOUR OLD CENTURIES....IAM WORKING AND IT IS MY RIGHT TO OUN THIS MONEY NO ONE ALLOWED TO INTERFERE IN MY OUN MONEY ..THE WIFE HAS THE RIGHT NOT TO SPEND FROM HER SALARY EVEN FOR HER CHILDREN AND IF SHE DID THIS WILL BE CONSIDER ADVANTAGE FOR HER BY GOD
posted by
drohan254
on April 29, 2007 at 1:20 AM
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Re:
Lovely words.......but unfortunately actions speak louder than words......I'll try a simpler question or two........
Can you hold public office in your country? Can you travel in your country alone?
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 29, 2007 at 1:11 AM
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the PREVIOUS say is from GOD BOOK FROM KORAN
PROPHET MOHHAMED SAID THE PARADISE ARE UNDER MOTHERS FEET
AND HE SAID WHO TREAT THEM GENEROUSLY IS THE GENEROUS AND WHO TREAT THEM BADLY IS THE BAD ....AND SO MANY OTHER SAYS WHO SEEK THE TRUTH IS WELCOMED TO READ MY BLOG
posted by
drohan254
on April 29, 2007 at 1:09 AM
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Re:
Now there's some more of that intelligent dialogue we've been looking for.......still no answers to my sincere questions???
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 29, 2007 at 1:08 AM
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Hi Drohan, great to see you defending.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on April 29, 2007 at 1:08 AM
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"O You who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women
against their will , and you should not treat them
with harshness, that you may take away part of the Mahr
(bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at time
of marriage) you have given them, unless they commit open
illegal sexual intercourse. And live with them honorably.
If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and
Allah
brings
through it a great deal of good." (An-Nisa 4:19)
The most basic right of a woman in Islam is the knowledge
and recognition that she never has to ask or demand or
fight for her rights which are guaranteed to her by Allah
(SWT) Himself.
posted by
drohan254
on April 29, 2007 at 1:05 AM
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SO CORBAN ALL, YOUR TALK IS BECAUSE YOU LOVE ISLAMIC WOMEN.... ARE YOU BLIND OR YOU THINK THAT OTHERS ARE STUPID TO BELIEVE YOUR LIES ....YOU ARE AN EXACT EXAMPLE ABOUT THE LIES WHICH DONE BY YOUR GOVERNMENT ....I GUESS BOSH IS RELATED TO YOU IS HEEEEEE ????????????..I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE DO ....I CARE ABOUT WHAT ISLAM ASKED US TO DO MY REPLY WILL BE ON MY BLOG
posted by
drohan254
on April 29, 2007 at 12:52 AM
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rocky ............ so you gave that iranian man your body before you know and he knew your mind this is very shameful for you as most of YOUR women DO ..it seem that it is a lie from you
so chose is it lie or it is true story as both are not good for you
for that old lady who seem her long age did not teach her to be wise and sure she never been a good mother other wise she will have little love in her heart GOD BLESS THE NATION WHICH WILL ACCEPT YOU TO BE A MOTHER ..NOW GUESS WHO IS THAT ????
NEAUTTTTTTTTTKUS ...SO YOU ARE ADMITTING THAT YOU ARE A BIG LIAR AND NEVER YOU PLANNED TO SEEK ANY TRUTH ..SO NOW HERE YOU ARE SAying that your writing about koran was from the beginning to create hate and again i remind you that you are atheist so why you are putting your nose between the onion and it's cortex
carbon ....i think this is your real name CO2 causing bad atmosphere and pollution for the clear water and weather
SO THIS IS THE CHATTING.... DID YOU THINK SMART MAN THAT I FINISH MY WRITING ABOUT WOMEN RIGHTS ....SO HOW I WILL KNOW IF YOU WERE SMART ..DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT I'M MORE SMARTER THAN YOU AND HE TOO
BY THE WAY WHO IS BEATING OTHER YOU OR IT SEEM YOUR WIFE BEAT YOU
JUST BETWEEN ME AND YOU HOW MANY TIME YOU BRAKE HER ARM OR SHE SMACK YOU ON YOUR FACE AND DO YOU DARE TO OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND LET US SEE HOW MANY TEETH ARE BROKEN
posted by
drohan254
on April 29, 2007 at 12:45 AM
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Re:
Tell it to the clerics spouting this kind of repressive garbage. These are actual clerics and sheiks issuing "fatwas" or religious rulings....... The least you could do is let us know what country you are in.......I would love to see more about such a tolerant land.
Why do you have to call people names? I am offering a differing view....one that is real. I have not attacked you in any way.....is this an example of the tolerance you so warmly speak?
Here's a thought....try and persuade me. Show me very specific examples of your religion nurturing women's position in the society........not flower passages, but concrete examples.
I havev ideo an interesting debate between a woman and a sheik.....she certainly doesn't paint a very pretty picture about women in Saudi Arabian society. Forced female circumcisions is another topic in the pipeline....killing of women that are raped....because it had to be their fault.......
Hang on to your seats we're in for a bumpy ride..........
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 29, 2007 at 12:42 AM
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Corbin
A yellow thing that quacks, waddles and flips his tail feathers is probably a duck. Keep your buckler up.
posted by
Justi
on April 28, 2007 at 10:56 PM
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Corbin
Just passing by. I can see it's been quite an evening.
Be well,
-smartdog
posted by
smartdog_670
on April 28, 2007 at 10:17 PM
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thanks for you xeno-x you have to continue facing this ugly man i will answer you ..you and your old ladies who don't know any thing ...
posted by
drohan254
on April 28, 2007 at 9:33 PM
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wait me ugly man iam a muslim woman who never had beaten by any one and your big lies are very clear for the people who have deep vision ..your aim with your other fellower the blind one is to attack the religion it self but for me iam not here to attack your religion as you started your dirty business then i'm here to answer you and very badly .just only now i saw your post so wait my answers
posted by
drohan254
on April 28, 2007 at 9:29 PM
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posted by
Amanda__
on April 28, 2007 at 2:11 PM
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Xeno
you're cute...
posted by
Nautikos
on April 28, 2007 at 12:12 PM
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Corbin
I think that might be be useful...
posted by
Nautikos
on April 28, 2007 at 12:11 PM
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Naut......
I've done it now......I see another post coming down the pike with my name in the title......
LOL
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 28, 2007 at 12:00 PM
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Re: THE ACTUAL TOPIC IS THAT CHRISTIANS ARE HYPOCRITES!!!!
You're a trip! I only included one verse.....because it was included with the video clip......the clips are of Muslin clerics and sheiks proclaiming their twisted views......why aren't you comment on them? Or did you bother to watch what they had to say.....
The Christians do??? Name me one beheading......one child suicide bomber.....
Xeno your thought process is very twisted......one cannot carry on a discussion with you ....you do understand what the other person is saying..........so I don't think I am going to bother any more...you can go and have a good time with GlennB......
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 28, 2007 at 11:58 AM
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Rocky......
You're a good example of being respected......but then, you weren't a Muslim woman living in Iran.
Thanks for commenting!
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 28, 2007 at 11:48 AM
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Corbin_Dallas
I guess the muslim women must be accepting of that.
posted by
TAPS.
on April 28, 2007 at 10:43 AM
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Hi Corbin, I don't mean to make a judgement but to share my experience
I once dated (for a brief time) a very handsome Iranian Muslim man. He put me on a pedestal but treated me like a possession and was never interested in what I had to say. He also made it clear that he would be the "boss" in the relationship and was in control. I believe they view "beatings" simply as the discipline of their "possession!" YIKES...Not for this American chick! LOL
posted by
RckyMtnActivist
on April 28, 2007 at 10:27 AM
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Well! Now I know the awful truth! My first husband was Islamic...
He said it was his Christian duty to beat me, keep me silent. Religion is so confusing.
posted by
Pat_B
on April 28, 2007 at 10:15 AM
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It is good to be informed. How we react to the information is a personal
choice.
posted by
proc
on April 28, 2007 at 10:06 AM
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and the other issue is that you are fanning the fires of a possible
unending war.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 28, 2007 at 9:55 AM
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THE ACTUAL TOPIC IS THAT CHRISTIANS ARE HYPOCRITES!!!!
just as you are.
you debase Islam by quoting certain aspects of certain writings -- you condemn Islam because of these. You make it seem that Islam is a more violent religion than Christianity because of the teachings of Jesus and other passages in the New Testament.
But until you and other Christians recognize that Christians violate the teachings of their founder and commit acts just as heinous as those of other countries and religions, and determine that you are going to repent of these actions, then you have no right to condemn another religion in any manner.
Get the beam out of your own eye -- then you can better see the mote in the other's eye.
then it might be that you can be considered believable.
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 28, 2007 at 9:54 AM
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corbin
Rules on beating your wife!! They come with an instruction manual!! The do's and don'ts of wife beating 101.
posted by
TIMMYTALES
on April 28, 2007 at 9:36 AM
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Re: that might be -- but Christians don't obey the sayings of Christ.
One of these days you are going to respond to the actual topic.......a claim was made that women are respected and equal to men in Islam.....and this is to show a more realistic side of that issue....and that they are not necessarily shown that respect.
Of course it went right over your head......
Yes, there are Christian men, and hell, Buddist men that beat their wives...that has nothing to do with their religion.......it has to do with their "person"....a flawed person.......
But Christianity doesn't sanction the beatings......there are not any edicts from the Pope or Billy Graham to go forth and beat your wife with a rod!
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 28, 2007 at 9:26 AM
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Carbin
It's Whities like you, who are giving noble, wife-beating Muslims, a bad name. Shame you on!
posted by
Enigmatic68
on April 28, 2007 at 9:15 AM
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that might be -- but Christians don't obey the sayings of Christ.
they beat their wives anyway.
Christian leaders have been caught in quite a few compromising situations, acting as badly as anyone in any religion.
and yet they will tell us that the teachings of the Bible and the Ten Commandments are to be obeyed when they themselves don't obey them.
multitudes of Christians have acted in opposition to their beliefs.
sorry, but don't speak to me about someone else's beliefs when Christians have the biggest beam in their eye of any religion -- basically that of hypocrisy!
posted by
Xeno-x
on April 28, 2007 at 9:01 AM
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Re: Naut......
Corbin, I know they'll come, but there's so much to be built, and so little time...
posted by
Nautikos
on April 28, 2007 at 7:21 AM
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Corbin
Good timing as I'm reading Naut's views on the Koran and the Bible this morning. I watched all three video snippets and the fellow in the second one was really frightening to me. --Mary (P.S. the conclusion is up in my blog, the 2nd part, sorry for the delay!)
posted by
FoliageGold
on April 28, 2007 at 7:09 AM
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I think that in order for love to be, one must eliminate the power struggle. One must also remember to leave animals out of the house, or else, they will take over, since they are animals.
posted by
Jenasis
on April 28, 2007 at 7:04 AM
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Naut......
There's a dozen sub-topics........property rights, what happens to a woman that is raped, divorce rights.....and education. There's plenty of room!
Yep, I'm curious to see what I'll be called next......
"Si tu id aeficas, ei venient"
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on April 28, 2007 at 6:54 AM
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Corbin
Well, old boy, you have relieved me of some toil. I had planned to do a post on the Koran's attitude towards women, something I didn't spend much time on in my last series, mainly for reasons of economy, and because I thought it merited special treatment. But here we have it straight from the horse's mouth, as it were! What better evidence? And it'll allow me to pay attention to other matters.
And I'm waiting for some amusing stuff from the muppets...
posted by
Nautikos
on April 28, 2007 at 6:42 AM
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That's what makes Rosie O'Donnell's views so hard to figure!
Although, as you said, it's not all Muslims who act that way. In fact, my next door neighbors (here in Philly) are Muslims and have truly taught me a great deal.
I actually plan to discuss it in my post later tonight (right after Andy Reid butchers yet another Eagles' draft with his assinine theory that linebackers and wide receivers are not "priority positions").
How come the dove gets to be the peace symbol?
How about pillows? It has more feathers than the dove,
and it doesn't have that dangerous beak.
posted by
Mademoiselle
on April 28, 2007 at 6:40 AM
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