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Nautikos
I find the problems in Chicago's Uptown quite intriguing. I've never really considered it before. But, I'd say it is a mess to get the citizens to come together on a development project when everybody has a different view of a vision of what an enhancement to the community would be AND when there is a communication gap between everybody. Uhhhhh. What a mess.
posted by
Joe_Love
on January 13, 2007 at 7:34 AM
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Corbin,
you're absolutely correct! Our collective sense of guilt and lack of confidence will do us in, if we don't change...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 12, 2007 at 12:42 PM
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Wiley
thanks for your long comment! And I fully share your distate for another Trudeau entering politics...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 12, 2007 at 12:40 PM
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LeRoy
Some excellent and pertinent observations...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 12, 2007 at 12:37 PM
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TAPS
there will be more reading for your enjoyment...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 12, 2007 at 12:36 PM
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Naut.....
Sorry for taking so long to read this......
It's amazing how all of these different subjects turn full circle back to, in my opinion, the Western world's feelings of guilt. Guilt over what they have achieved, prompted by some incidents in the past that that may have used to achieve it. Unfortunately,the most significant of the dangers posed to destroy our cultures, come from within our cultures. Fueedl by the efforts of apologists and defeatists.
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 10, 2007 at 8:54 PM
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Nautikos
Well that is quite a blog.I'm not sure if I should even comment at all, but the good thing is, at my age, I'll soon have all the answers.
Personally, and with tongue in cheek just a bit, life was easier when we Irish Canucks, had to be buddies with the Jewish Canucks and fight our way to school through the French Canucks together.
I kind of feel that we were never meant to 'mix it all up' as we've done~and of course it seems the white man is responsible for that and I wonder why~ but now that we have I try and understand and share with other cultures to the best of my ability.
Small things irk the hell out of me, like when I have dealt with folks of the Muslim faith, and actually feel like they see and treat me as an infidel.
Now in my opinion, this entire matter of Canada and Québec is going to come to an end in the short term, because we have two cultures that never got along anyway.
It,s a sickening thought that another Trudeau may be running the country~Justin~ and you can be sure that will be another huge change, but it won't bother us if he stays where he belongs in the Nation of Québec.
I really should study this blog again my friend, there is more meat in it than I can handle right now.
posted by
WileyJohn
on January 10, 2007 at 8:12 PM
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Naut, I think this is your bravest piece
the worst thing about multi-culturalism is that human diversity is being destroyed. Cultures are the most important resource human beings have and if we (meaning the human population of the planet) do end up with a few big blocks of Chinese-Arabic-, English-, and Spanish-speakers, the diversity that has helped the human race to survive a lot of disease and weather and famine will be gone. In 1800 there were a billion people and over 20,000 language groups. Now there are maybe a few thousand and it is shrinking fast. A forest with 700 species of plants is always more hardy and self-suffcient than a hybrid cornfield.
posted by
LeRoyCoyote
on January 10, 2007 at 6:42 PM
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Well Naut, there's a comedian called Des Bishop doing a routine whereby
the G.A.A. (Gaelic Athletic Association) Gaelic Football final 2025 features players such as Ud Romanoff, Ojibwe Ojibwe whereas it'd just've been Murphys & O'Briens all along.
posted by
CringeintheUSA
on January 10, 2007 at 2:29 PM
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Nautikos
I think I've just spent the entire evening reading this post and the comments (little exaggeration there). Quite an interesting topic. I'm afraid that it is much easier to merge races than it would ever be to merge cultures. I think that both are gradually changing but culture so slowly that its not even noticible. People love their diversities. They like to hunker and to disagree. I think it makes humans feel important.
posted by
TAPS.
on January 9, 2007 at 8:48 PM
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Norseman
thanks for the comment! You're absolutely right, we were 'black'! (I thought my remark that we came out of Africa implied that, but sometimes it's best to be explicit, lol.)
posted by
Nautikos
on January 9, 2007 at 4:56 PM
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bel
of course it causes resentment, and a lot of other things too. America once had the right idea: the notion of the 'melting pot' meant that, no matter where you were from, you became American. And what exactly that meant may have changed over time, but it changed gradually, over the course of generations.
The same was true for Canada. Now we have approximately fifty-two hyphenated Canadians, literally from A to Z, from Albanian-Canadians to Zulu-Canadians, and for all of them the fact that they are Albanian or Zulu is more important than that they are Canadian. (As long as they are allowed to stay, of course!)
When the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah broke out, we had to send ships to Lebanon to pick up tens of thousands of Lebanese-Canadians, who live, work and pay taxes in Lebanon (presumably, 'cause they ain't paying any here), but who suddenly remembered that they were 'Canadians' and demanded to be hauled out of there, which was done at tremendous expense...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 9, 2007 at 4:53 PM
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Nautikos...
I want to applaud your last comment to Justi where you made the distinction between race and culture. The only thing I might add to the fact that we are all one species is that we humans started out on the darker side of the spectrum...at least that's what science tells me, because you can't get color from no color. Culture on the other hand has always been and will always be the single most devisive componet. Great post, I should have started reading you sooner.
posted by
A_Norseman
on January 9, 2007 at 4:51 PM
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Justi
This whole issue is primarily a matter of culture rather than one of race or biology. Down the road (and I obviously can't put a time frame on it) most of us will be sort of brownish anyway.
The differences betwen the races, as far as the biology is concerned, are insignificant. We are all members of the same species: Homo sapiens sapiens. And we all came out of Africa at one point (well, our ancestors did, lol.) The different 'racial' characteristics are the result of long periods of relative isolation between breeding populations. With increased mobility across the globe these distinctions will gradually disappear, albeit over many, many generations.
However, what is of greater importance for practical purposes, and for the here and now, is culture. History has shown that conflicts between cultures can be devastating. And now we are beginning to introduce tensions into Western nation-states by artifically grafting 'alien' cultures onto them...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 9, 2007 at 4:33 PM
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I think forcing anything only causes resentment
sometimes I have to wonder, I have no problem with diversity in fact I welcome it but I sometimes get the feeling that there are certain people (namely politians) who are trying to prove how open minded they are by forcing something in which they are not willing to experience themselves. I don't have the answer but I just think there has to be a better way to bring people together.
posted by
bel_1965
on January 9, 2007 at 4:12 PM
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Nautikos
I did not find it too complicated to understand. I for one do not approve of the gene pool mixture. I do think people should be able to live in harmony but there is much more to our point of view. Those of us who do not favor mixing through marriage and birth to the point of blending all peoples realize few will agree with us. It is not complicated but not often understood because it comes from thousands of year old findings.
posted by
Justi
on January 9, 2007 at 3:45 PM
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Whinge
thanks for the comment. Of course, I am not familiar with the situation in Ireland, but if you recognize what's being said here, it can't be far off...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 9, 2007 at 3:30 PM
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I got back & read through, it's funny but's it's very much the way that
things are happening here & there's no provision for it.
It is difficult for these observations to be made, convey being unbiased & not get castigated for same.
posted by
CringeintheUSA
on January 9, 2007 at 2:49 PM
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Pat B
Thanks for your comment, but let me respond.
This is not about diversity per se, about mixing the gene pool or having interesting restaurants to go to or not. Nor is it something directed at specific groups of one sort or another. It is talking about cultural and social change.
Cultures have always changed, although the rate of change has probably accelerated. Without getting into technicalities, let's just accept that it is possible to devise some objective measures for such changes as well as the rate of change.
Having said that, up until fairly recently, history only knows of three ways in which rapid social change occurred: revolutions, conquest and slavery. Aside from those three 'mechanisms', change in any given culture was mor or less 'organic', by which I mean that occurred over the span of generations, in an almost imperceptible way, imperceptible at least to the members of whatever culture. There were never any state-sponsored attempts at enforcing a rapid, intra-generational social and cultural change.
If everybody agreed that such enforced social and cultural changes were a good thing, great. But as it turns out, most people actually dont. And I, as well as this article, talk about the consequence that people don't agree and about the sometimes undesirable consequences of such policies. All of which is rarely discussed because it's not 'nice' and not politically correct to do so. But it's nonetheless important!
.
posted by
Nautikos
on January 9, 2007 at 1:04 PM
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I'm gonna take a 'Johnny 5' on this........
'Too much input!', I promise to read all of it soon.
posted by
CringeintheUSA
on January 9, 2007 at 12:34 PM
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Justi
thanks for your comment It's a very complicated issue...
posted by
Nautikos
on January 9, 2007 at 12:25 PM
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Interesting read, I liked the varying opinions...
As for diversity, it seems to me vibrant life on our planet has developed because varying entities from the gene pool swam within range of others, and the resulting growth was strong enough to survive nature's onslaughts. And there was that thing about being fruitful and multiplying. Where would we be without the cuisines and musical renderings of other cultures? We might be living on oatmeal and potatoes and listening to nothing but six-string guitars and nasal whines about the one who done her wrong.
posted by
Pat_B
on January 9, 2007 at 7:41 AM
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Nautikos
This is long, it is good. My family goes back to the Thirteen Colonies, I have seen or heard family talk a lot about much of what is in here up to the point I can speak from my own experience. The most important point in here is "a lie told often enough becomes truth", which is a lie in itself. It does not become truth, idiots take it as truth. Separation of Church and State is not a truth. That lie alone distorts everything else after the period from 1924 to 1950. From there it is steadily down hill. Keep writing these are good if I do have to stick to them for a long time.
posted by
Justi
on January 8, 2007 at 8:08 PM
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