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An investigation is underway, Spitfire. I'm following the story as best I
can around this holiday, but the police are remaining pretty tight-lipped. In the right or no, it's bad press to have three of your finest shot by a 92-year-old, not to mention shooting and killing said 92-year-old. The "no-knock policy" came up in the media, but, as far as I know, the policemen maintain that they knocked and announced themselves. Maybe they knew an elderly lady lived in the house? Maybe they thought the warrant was a wild goose chase? But what caused them to break the door down is what I want to know. Granny yelling, "You'll never take me alive, po-po!!"? Maybe some neighbors heard something.
As for grannies selling and doing drugs, Spitfire -- it may be hard to imagine, but I read stories about grannies being arrested every now and then for trafficking, dealing, using. In fact, it hasn't been too long ago that I read a story where an elderly granny ran an entire drug outfit.
posted by
saul_relative
on November 25, 2006 at 5:23 PM
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Go get 'em, Blanche. I'm glad to be of inspiration. We are ultimately the
watchdog, the first defense, the check on the corrupt system at local levels. And we can be and are none of these if we do not question what will definitely remain hidden otherwise.
posted by
saul_relative
on November 25, 2006 at 5:15 PM
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Hey, SaulR,
I guess I will wait to see what futher facts are uncovered in this case before making up my opinion and decision. All I can say right now is that a 92 year old woman probably doesn't have great hearing, may have heard only banging and muddled voices at the door, and most importantly, doesn't anyone consider that intruders may announce themselves at anyone's door (especially an elderlies' door) that
they're the police? What an easy way to gain access to a home without having to break in? And, I'd really like to know where the drugs that were found in the home really belonged to. Did the niece or any other person live or frequent her home? I can't really imagine a 92 year old drug dealer or drug user.
posted by
SpitFire70
on November 25, 2006 at 2:46 AM
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Saul, this whole story and your blog is inspiring me to do more research
on not only this case (I want to know what probable cause the p.d. had, what evidence, if it was acting on an anonymous tip, a "sting" operation, why they dexcended on this house, if they suspected she was harboring a young relative or something), why they take the "shoot first, ask questions later" attitude.
But I want to look at the wider scope of the overall Drug War, number of civilian casualties, mistaken identities and persons shot while "resisting arrest". Fortunately, Professor Peabody has an extensive Playboy collection and we've been going through the Forum section, looking for the civil liberties articles. He's pulled a few for further review. I'll probably post something this weekend. Interesting questions, it raises.
posted by
Blanche.
on November 24, 2006 at 9:43 PM
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A problem always arises when corruption is involved, Bhaskar. And this may
be the case here. I hope not, but you never know.
posted by
saul_relative
on November 24, 2006 at 9:15 PM
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Sorry, guys. I had to step out for a bit (they call it work) so I could
pay the bills. TAPS and Blanche: I do hope that the truth is revealed in this case. If these guys are thuggish morons who terrorized a poor old lady into defending herself, then they should have been shot at. If they acted within the confines of the law and only reacted when faced by a hail of bullets, then their response may have been justified. But I'd like to see them get a fair hearing without being attacked as brutes or grandma killers.
posted by
saul_relative
on November 24, 2006 at 9:02 PM
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TAPS, I really don't know who could be at fault. You never know these
policemen. Once on the Highway to Delhi I saw a shootout take place and the policemen opened fire because a vehicle with four people broke a cordon and sped their vehicle.Two people died, and later the policemen placed contrband to show their justification.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on November 24, 2006 at 10:23 AM
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Good point, TAPS, I made a faulty assumption that because she was 92
she might not have been in control of her faculties. I hope she gets a fair hearing, poor lady.
posted by
Blanche.
on November 24, 2006 at 10:03 AM
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Professor Peabody just piped up and asked, "How come we're supposed to
give the police the benefit of the doubt, when they do not", Case in point, breaking into this woman's house, probably in the dead of night, with no identification, no warning and how is she supposed to react?
Is there time to answer questions? Why?
posted by
Blanche.
on November 24, 2006 at 10:02 AM
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Blanche and saul_relative, There are many older people in their 90's and even over 100 who are sharp as a tack but sometimes do not seem so because of physical ailments like loss of hearing or worsening eye sight. Also, in this crazy world of ours, they just do not know how to cope with some things. I'm glad that I do not have to decide who is right and who is wrong in this case.
posted by
TAPS.
on November 24, 2006 at 9:58 AM
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You're right, Blanche. Perspective is subjective. And people react to
loss in various ways.
posted by
saul_relative
on November 24, 2006 at 9:56 AM
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Oh, and TAPS, there is no way I could sit on a jury and, no matter what my
final say in the matter was, come away without at least a few doubts and "what ifs". It's human...
posted by
saul_relative
on November 24, 2006 at 9:55 AM
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I don't know the woman, so I guess I shouldn't comment, but obnoxiousness
is often in the eye of the beholder. Many consider Cindy Sheehan obnoxious and I'm sure she's past caring what anyone thinks. She lost her son.
posted by
Blanche.
on November 24, 2006 at 9:54 AM
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Thanks for pointing that out, TAPS. I hadn't known that. Like Blanche,
that makes me feel better about my impending old age...
posted by
saul_relative
on November 24, 2006 at 9:53 AM
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It would have happened anyway, Blanche. It's standard procedure. And, yes
I'd've been upset as well, just not so obnoxious. But we cannot presuppose anything in this case. Those cops may be innocent (no matter how hard it is to believe).
posted by
saul_relative
on November 24, 2006 at 9:51 AM
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That's good to know, TAPS, that a woman of 92 can be sharp and fully
in control of her own faculties gives me a lot of hope.
posted by
Blanche.
on November 24, 2006 at 9:49 AM
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Her aunt is dead, Saul, of course she's mad. Wouldn't you be?
Sarah Dozier's words: "They killed her, they shot her down like a dog, and I'm upset. Somebody is going to answer to it, 'cause I'm going to sue like hell! I'm going to sue like hell! Let Atlanta know that."
I'd have said the same thing, good for her, I hope she does start an investigation. It needs to happen, it's long overdue.
posted by
Blanche.
on November 24, 2006 at 9:48 AM
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All good points, Blanche. And debatable as well. Given the little
information we know about the case, all aspects are "in the air", so to speak. I try not to side with either view, but living here in Atlanta, we're seeing this constantly played on television. And the Dozier woman is simply obnoxious (which doesn't mean she's wrong, just obnoxious)...
posted by
saul_relative
on November 24, 2006 at 9:44 AM
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Blanche, one of the main characterists of Alzheimer's Disease is not knowing what you are supposed to do with something. An AD patient would probably not know how to point a gun and pull the trigger at a conceived threat.
posted by
TAPS.
on November 24, 2006 at 9:44 AM
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Even giving the benefit of the doubt, a 92 year old woman was gunned down
in the "shoot first, ask questions later". hail of bullets and dead is dead, even if she had drugs,was it worth killing her? And did she? She was 92, for God's sake, she might have had Alzheimers and been confused.
posted by
Blanche.
on November 24, 2006 at 9:38 AM
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I suppose, Saul, it's hard not to assume the worst when they routinely are
caught in infraction after infraction and it all goes away, never makes the papers again. They need more oversight and more accountability than Internal Affairs, it's a joke, and a stale, bad, old joke at that. I do rush to judgment, I've had experiences with cops and their attitudes and it left a bad, bad taste in my mouth.
posted by
Blanche.
on November 24, 2006 at 9:37 AM
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saul_relative, I have served on juries before, several times, and I just hate it because even with a preponderance of the evidence, I am besieged with "but what if"s.
posted by
TAPS.
on November 24, 2006 at 9:37 AM
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If that is all true, Blanche, I'm with you 100%. But it will all come out
in the end, whether or not what happened did so in the manner in which they tell it. And I would caution people not to assume that all cops are dirty, that these guys were just there to search the house, that this woman could have been a drug dealer. Still, either way, it is sad that she died the way she did...
posted by
saul_relative
on November 24, 2006 at 9:35 AM
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Saul, yeah, right, they found the drugs they brought with them to plant
I'm sure, in case anything went wrong. I heard this last night, and Professor Peabody and I were speculating on exactly how many civilian deaths there have been as a result of the "Drug War', particularly by mistaken identity.
That poor, poor 92 year old woman, who was probably trying to defend herself and was scared out of her mind, had no clue that they were cops, I'm sure, because they don't have to identify themselves now. What the hell are people supposed to do when unidentified gangs of roving thugs with guns start breaking into their home at 3 am, (and by that I mean the cops). Sons of bitches. Excuse my language please, but this makes me unspeakably mad.
posted by
Blanche.
on November 24, 2006 at 9:31 AM
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