Go to God as The Universe as an Organism
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as far as the Bible is concerned
their was no " law". But there was death. Man was locked in spiritual death and unable to escape being forever separated from God.
Galations 3: What then was the purpose of the Law? It was added [later on, after the promise, to disclose and expose to men their guilt] because of transgressions and [to make men more conscious of the sinfulness] of sin; and it was intended to be in effect until the Seed (the Descendant, the Heir) should come, to and concerning Whom the promise had been made. And it [the Law] was arranged and ordained and appointed through the instrumentality of angels [and was given] by the hand (in the person) of a go-between [Moses, an intermediary person between God and man].
20Now a go-between (intermediary) has to do with and implies more than one party [there can be no mediator with just one person]. Yet God is [only] one Person [and He was the sole party in giving that promise to Abraham. But the Law was a contract between two, God and Israel; its validity was dependent on both].
21Is the Law then contrary and opposed to the promises of God? Of course not! For if a Law had been given which could confer [spiritual] life, then righteousness and right standing with God would certainly have come by Law.
22But the Scriptures [picture all mankind as sinners] shut up and imprisoned by sin, so that [the inheritance, blessing] which was promised through faith in Jesus Christ (the Messiah) might be given (released, delivered, and committed) to [all] those who believe [who adhere to and trust in and rely on Him].
23Now before the faith came, we were perpetually guarded under the Law, kept in custody in preparation for the faith that was destined to be revealed (unveiled, disclosed),
24So that the Law served [a][to us Jews] as our trainer [our guardian, our guide to Christ, to lead us] until Christ [came], that we might be justified (declared righteous, put in right standing with God) by and through faith.
25But now that the faith has come, we are no longer under a trainer (the guardian of our childhood).
26For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith.
posted by
calmcantey75
on September 5, 2006 at 5:38 PM
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absolutely no doubt
posted by
star4sky5
on September 5, 2006 at 5:22 PM
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believers
can prevent their children from being born with deformities with three elements: Faith, the Word, speaking that Word mixed with faith over their unborn children. THis is exercising the law of Righteousness in Christ JEsus over the law of sin and death. The one superceds the other, but it MUST be enforced otherwise the deformity will manifest. God observes humanities free will at all times, the Devil and Sin and Death does not.
posted by
calmcantey75
on September 5, 2006 at 5:19 PM
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Not to mention dinosaurs, Xeno-x, it's not inconceivable to be a Christian
who believes in evolution. I, for one, cannot unlearn my education and swallow the line that the world is 6,000 years old. There's too much carbon dating and the fossil record. To me, arguing over cosmology, negates the spirit of Christ. I have no problem believing that The Big Bang coincides with The Word who said, "Let there be light". There was light, with a bang.
In my mind, most of the bible is metaphorical and allegorical, but the words that ring true to me are "I am the way, the truth, and the light" and "I will write my word on your heart". It's a spritual thing. Cosmology, cosschmology.
posted by
Blanche.
on September 2, 2006 at 1:39 PM
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cantey_1975
then would you say that believers have been and would be immune from this curse of the woman's birth canal -- that the women wouldn't die in childbirth and babies of these believing women wouldn't also die?
what are you saying when it comes to believers? if there is a request for healing then the birth is fine and basically uneventful, being immune from the curse?
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 2, 2006 at 8:29 AM
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Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them tha
| Rom 5:14 |
| Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. |
similitude :
1) that which has been made after the likeness of something
a) a figure, image, likeness, representation
b) likeness i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity
TRANSGRESSION:
1) a going over
2) metaph. a disregarding, violating
a) of the Mosaic law
b) the breach of a definite, promulgated, ratified law
c) to create transgressions, i.e. that sins might take on the character of transgressions, and thereby the consciousness of sin be intensified and the desire for redemption be aroused
was there a law before Moses?
posted by
Xeno-x
on September 1, 2006 at 8:44 AM
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I forgot to add
the gift that has overflown through Christ Jesus can and will heal the bodies of the deformed, setting right what was wronged by man's trespass. Jesus is still a healer of the sick.
posted by
calmcantey75
on August 31, 2006 at 8:55 PM
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the conclusion would be
that God is unjust, if He visits the sin of the fathers upon innocent babies, causing the DNA to twist their litle bodies cruely.
it is mysterious I know. And a contradiction. A pickle?
the only logic I can apply to it is the Bible's own logical answer to the question, which is:
Romans 5:12-19 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
the same pathway that sin traveled on to inflict its penalty on those who did not break any commandments ( babies) is also traveled upon by righteousness to those ( who do not desearve it, just like the babies did not deserve the corrupt DNA) who will receive it.
posted by
calmcantey75
on August 31, 2006 at 8:51 PM
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thank your for commenting cantey_1975
let me ask then a few questions
are you saying that because of Eve's sin, DNA changed so that the birth canal became the way it is today thus killing so many women in childbirth and so many innocent babies? or are these babies not so innocent?
is this like visiting the sins of the fathers on succeeding generations, as in Exodus 20?
it would seem like this is punishing innocent babies for something they never did -- for the sin of one woman.
and then of course these innocent babies are commended to Limbo to await their fate.
posted by
Xeno-x
on August 31, 2006 at 12:32 PM
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God
has not intentionally caused the deaths of people. You know the Christian doctrine contains the concept of mankinds willfull choice of rebellion and thus the introduction of sin into the earth and sin brings death. This death is of course spiritual death, or " separation" from God. The spirit is the highest component of the human thrifold being. If the spirit, which is the highest, is corrupted, how much more will human physical DNA be corrupted? It is corrupted, and only a spiritual cure will correct it, since it is spiritual in origin.
posted by
calmcantey75
on August 31, 2006 at 10:02 AM
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