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Even if they are getting royal treatment in Guantanamo they are destined for execution sooner or later. Islam is a religion of peace and not torture.
posted by
adventurer02
on July 14, 2015 at 4:12 AM
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So They Get...
...impaled in "the Arab world". and shot in Detroit.
The difference being....?
And yes, form an opinion by all means. After all, they're easy to come by and everyone has one. But shooting off about your opinion as if it is fact backed, no less, by an 'authority' on the topic, is a different matter all together.
I'm not usually smug. I think it just comes out in the presence of blind, bigotted ignorance.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on February 5, 2006 at 8:58 AM
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A dramatic illustration, Corbin,
of the kind of culture we're up against. It would be utterly naive, of course, to claim that there's no brutality in the Western world, the Holocaust in Germany of recent memory being a prime example. But I would like to employ an analogy from the world of physics, and suggest that there is a difference in 'critical mass': in the West, the point has been reached where certain things are simply no longer possible, e.g. the public rectal impalement of an offender, no matter what his crime. In the islamic world, on the other hand, we can observe a tendency to revert to a brutal medievalism, sanctioned by the faith...
posted by
Nautikos
on February 2, 2006 at 11:00 AM
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Can you make a statement without trying to inject layers of condescending smugness.....
So a person can't form an opinion without experiencing the topic first? Give me a break......
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on February 2, 2006 at 4:36 AM
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Ah...another diversion....
But one I don't mind....
Considering the punishments in these countries for crimes.....one can understand the deterrent effect upon would be criminals.....
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on February 2, 2006 at 4:30 AM
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When You Wrote...
..."
that will show them that it (the Arab social order) is a very brutal one" you clearly define your own bias, and that of your friend Brigitte.
If you'd spent any time at all in Arab lands, you would know this statement to be embarassingly, almost laughably, untrue.
Why don't you try this. Check out the murder rates for cities like Tehran, Cairo, Damascus, Dubai, Kuwait City, and compare them with cities like Detroit, Washington, New Jersey. Then talk to us about a 'brutal' social order.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on February 2, 2006 at 4:20 AM
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You like to get personal don't you?
I'm not trying to justify anything......you obviously have a very different perception than I do.....that's your right...you perogative.....
All I want is for people here, that may not realize the type of social order we are dealing with, gain additional information that will show them that it is a very brutal one.
You, by the way, use sweeping generalizations to twist things to your point of view....perhaps it's the Euro way of looking at the US. I don't really care.
Thank you for your comments........If you feel you have a need to provide a more extensive summary of your views....perhaps you should consider a post of your own?
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on February 1, 2006 at 2:18 PM
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Does Torture...
...happen in the Arab world?
Definitely! Abu Ghraib springs to mind - the prison where Saddam's torturers were replaced by Bush's torturers.
And actually, this talk of true specifics (no argument) being turned into sweeping and false generalizations (no question) avoids the other point, which is...
Is the "fact" that torture is commonplace in the Arab world being put up here as justification for acts of torture, brutality or humiliation carried out by American personnel? I mean, are you really stooping that low?
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on February 1, 2006 at 9:26 AM
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Well......
After about 4:00PM CST......high speed will return! I'll be in a different town.
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on February 1, 2006 at 4:04 AM
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Corbin,
I just think your post re-emphasizes the fact that some of them are trying to get the truth out there! Don't worry about not commenting...I believe you were traveling and using a very expensive dial-up when I posted that one!
posted by
ms_bradrock
on February 1, 2006 at 4:00 AM
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ms bradrock
I have read it and found it very insightful......I though I commented there? It's hard to keep track of these things.....
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on February 1, 2006 at 3:56 AM
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Corbin, I think is is important to note that the information
in your post comes from someone who understands the reality of the Arabic culture. In my recent post I wrote about how the Arabic people view themselves. There are many truly wonderful Arabic people who are trying to rise above this aspect of their culture, and many are doing just that...Take a peek at the post if you care to. And thanks as always for sharing another side of the story!
posted by
ms_bradrock
on February 1, 2006 at 3:53 AM
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Is it really that wonderful feeling so smug? I asked if the things reported and shown on the links were false.
Are the practices cited in her article actually happening...and your response was about her sweeping generalizations?
Now that's some nice quick maneuvering...like a supertanker...... How is people being punished by having a pointed rod rammed through their rear a generalization......
Are you saying this torture and inhumane practices don't happen in the Arab world?
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on February 1, 2006 at 3:33 AM
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Under Your Title...
.."What the Arab World Thinks of Torture" you repeat what one woman, with a clear agenda, thinks the Arab world thinks of torture.
Are sweeping generalizations false?
Of course they are.
And yes, Mother Teresa did have an agenda, and she took every opportunity to make it very clear. Unlike your correspondant here, who poses as a disinterested 'authority' on all things Arab, speaking as if her opinions are fact.
She's clearly fooled you, though, so a job well done, I guess.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on February 1, 2006 at 1:59 AM
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Good post! Too many Americans make the mistake to think
that the Arab street believes as we do in: decency, democracy, habeas corpus, women's rights and all the rest of our Western values. ARGUS
posted by
ARGUS
on January 31, 2006 at 3:31 PM
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Corbin,
I agree, if we- all your readers had the same opinion as yours, there wouldn't be any discussions between us? Thanks to them - different views, all of us can learn more, can't we??? Take care and thank you for your nice visit.
posted by
mira1
on January 31, 2006 at 9:41 AM
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Mira
I would never take offense with anything you might say....I respect you and your opinions....so we disagree on some things.....so be it.
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 31, 2006 at 8:59 AM
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Always shift to attack the messenger.....if we want to get technical......didn't Mother Teresa have an agenda?
The question is.....are any of the things she mentioned as being common practices in the Arab cultures false?
If not, your attack on here is just another distraction.....an attempt to shift the emphasis from the point and to the person....
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 31, 2006 at 8:57 AM
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Dear Corbin,
I didn't mean to offend you as an American, giving the example of Vietnam...I simply read a lot about the tortures. The fact that I mentioned this, doesn't mean that I can't diffirentiate between Russian, German or Chinese crimes and some other crimes/mistakes made in more civilized countries like the USA. There is a big difference, definitely. I only wanted to explain that such things can happen everywhere - (they happened in my country too), only the scale is different. In spite of love to our country, we should be brave enough to see both its good and bad points.... We should try to be more objective. I'm trying to do it, though it isn't easy.
posted by
mira1
on January 31, 2006 at 8:35 AM
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In the Interests...
...of full disclosure, it's worth mentioning that this lady has an agenda. here it is...
American Congress for Truth was founded in June 2002 by Brigitte Gabriel a Lebanese immigrant who came to the United States after losing her country of birth, Lebanon, to militant Muslim fundamentalists. Brigitte Gabriel an American citizen founded American Congress for Truth to give a voice to Americans, Jews and Christians, who have lost their tongue to political correctness. We have become a society unable to act or speak because we’re afraid to voice our opinion lest we would be sued and accused of being not fair minded.
American Congress for Truth’s mission is to inform, educate, inspire, motivate, network and empower millions of uninformed Americans about the threat of militant fundamentalist Islam to America, Israel and Western civilization. Through media, speaking engagements and lobbying of political representatives, ACT will work to influence legislation, educate and organize a grassroots movement to oppose this threat.
From the
American Congress for Truth website.
Furthermore, she is known as a Zionist Arab, with little in-depth knowledge of Islam, and someone who is making her name for herself as a contraversial speaker who verges on hate stuff on a regular basis. She uses her Arab heritage as an excuse for making sweeping (and often false) generalisations about "the Arab race".
She clearly has issues - "I was betrayed by my country, and rescued by my enemy, Israel."
Don't fall into the Fox News trap - always check your sources!
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on January 31, 2006 at 8:32 AM
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Do you have to talk in such grandiose fashion all of the time?
Every human has the capacity for violence and cruelty...Duh???
Holiness has nothing to do with it.......civility does.
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 31, 2006 at 6:28 AM
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you have to remember what Jesus told the religioius leaders of his day
whenthey said they wouldn't have done what their forefathers did in killing and stoning prophets.
he basically said they are capable of the same thing.
and they were weren't they?
everyone in every generation is capable of these things.
no one is exempt
the right circumstances and . . .
your holiness is very superficial -- whitened sepulchers.
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 31, 2006 at 5:46 AM
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Mira
Nobody is saying mistakes haven't been made....but I think it is wrong to compare any mistake we may have made with the ongoing human rights policies of China or the old Soviet Union....
Ask yourself this.....
How many people have been tortured by China and the Communist Bloc and how many have been freed....given the opportunity to seek their own existance........Apply the same statement to the US.......and how do those numbers compare......
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 31, 2006 at 4:51 AM
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Blanche
Care to tell us some example of how we are torturing anyone at Gitmo???
Every Rights group imaginable has been down there to observe.....what have we done to these fine young men at Gitmo?
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 31, 2006 at 4:45 AM
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Corbin,
Don't forget that tortures are not only the part of Arab "culture" - mind you, they are (or were) present in some Asian cultures (how about China, Russia?), they were also used by Christian cultures ( take into account the Inquistion). If you prefer modern examples - remember WWII. I think that Vietnam is also a good example...., unfortunately.
posted by
mira1
on January 30, 2006 at 9:24 PM
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Corbin Dallas
Corbin, you are right in what you've said here. Keep safe on the road!
posted by
BrightIrish
on January 30, 2006 at 8:39 PM
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Corbin,
I am not commenting to be inflammatory, but I'm just wondering about what your point is here. I love the U.S., I'm a U.S. citizen and proud and grateful to be one. There's no doubt that I am glad not to be born into a culture that practices these things, but it doesn't justify the "waterboarding", and other techniquest condoned in the "Torture Memo" written by John Yoo of the Defense Dept's Office of Legal Counsel.
What will torturing terrorist suspects at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo accomplish? We sink to their level and further endanger the lives of the hostages the Muslims do take. What will that get us? A death spiral escalating out of control of a vendetta. Arabs live for vendettas, I'm told, they're very good at holding a grudge.
posted by
Blanche.
on January 30, 2006 at 6:31 PM
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Corbin you are absolutely right, we know there are interogation techniques
BUT nothing like the atrocities that they have committed.
posted by
scoop
on January 30, 2006 at 6:28 PM
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Thanks, all of you for commenting.
I am in the great state of Mississippi tonight......
Been on the road all day......
My purpose here wasn't to shock or offend in any way.....but I see many posts here about how we are torturing all over the world and it angers me. When I came upon this young woman's article it struck me as being to the point and very informative.
An alternative to what we hear on a daily basis from the "America Sucks" crowd.
Yes.....we have have had atrocities occur in our own history...and they've been mentioned here today....but isn't it a testament to our growth and maturation that you are not referring to actual examples of our doing this now?
As I would say to someone talking to me regarding slavery......what does that have to do with the "now". I wasn't living when those things happened......I can only feel a partial responsibility for what my country does today......
And frankly...unsubstituted claims of flushing a Koran down a toilet....or taking pictures of naked prisoners pales by comparison to what is apparently regarded as the norm in this culture.
I'll match my country's record of humanitarian activities against it's atrocities any day of the week.......
Could anyone in the Arab world say the same?
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 30, 2006 at 6:23 PM
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Corbin I believe all countries ours included have done some bad things;
however, it is not a way of life today except in majority Muslim countries. You may get a lot of flack from even this comment. Just because I am the commenter. That in and of itself is an incredible and ugly threat. But there is a massive amount of evidence, information available about the violence of the Muslim Religion against those who aren't of their faith and it is still going on and has always gone on. It is constant. It is not a constant in this country, never has been.
posted by
Justi
on January 30, 2006 at 12:28 PM
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Thanks for Sharing the Information
I would not have had the opportunity otherwise!!
posted by
Dr_JPT
on January 30, 2006 at 12:18 PM
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ODD
OUR GOOD CHRISTIAN WESTERN SOCIETY HAS BEEN VERY GOOD AT TORTURE
when you post such as you have you make it seem the western society is the good guys.
Tower of London
Inquisition
Andersonville
do these ring a bell?
all related to man's inhumanity to man, particularly in the European realm.
into the 50's African Americans were mistreated grossly, torture, etc.
U.S. intelligence agencies trained our allies in torture.
Shah of Iran
El Salvadore
Nicaragua.
torture is evil
but don't go separating "us" from "them" because you can't
at least the Arab world is honest about it i guess (if what you have quoted has any merit at all) -- they admit it.
seemsur good Christian Nation here is more hypocritical than honest -- puts forth a "pure" image and beneath that is putrefactoin -- every time i have to comment on our good Christians (not all -- just enough) I continually find so many similarities to Jesus' condeming of the religious authorities of h is day in Matthew after the cleansing of the Temple.
Woe to you, SCribes and Pharisees.
what did he say?
You are like a whitened sepulcher -- so beautiful and holy appearing on the outside, but inside you are full of dead peoples bones.
get the comparison?
posted by
Xeno-x
on January 30, 2006 at 9:50 AM
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Corbin,
I personally can't agree that Americans are more soft hearted. Our judical system just makes us more fair in giving humane sentences to the murders, rapists, ect. I figure if you collected enough people who were angry enough, then we would do something just as terrible against a person who committed a great sin or was supposed to created that sin. Think about 9/11. Had any of the terrorists survived and been turned over to a crowd what type of punishment would have been administered? Americans throughout our history collectively and publicly tortured with tarred and feathered method, hanging, burned at the stake, or drowning slowly by staking the individual during low tide in the ocean or strapping them to a chair and dunking them under water. Runaway slaves were beaten and normally disfigured publicly with either a hand or foot chopped off or a public flogging. KKK activitist brought further horror and torture in the name of prejudice. Native Americans were scalped for bounty or whole villages were destroyed - Wounded Knee - Americans rejoiced. How many stories or news casts do you see where the families of victims from convicted murders want the death sentence and not humane injections? How many times do you see people on the interstate slow down and gawk at injured motorists in bloody accidents? How many children each year are subjected to physical and mental abuse, stolen, died with their poor bodies mangled before found? How many women go the the hospital beatened, bruised, and disfigured from domestic violence. How many people disappear each year because of violence brought forth by one individual who would use torture to satisfy his/hers own private lusts. How many animals suffer from the hands of owners? No, I don't think we are more soft hearted. I just think we "cover up" the torture more privately, rather than full public display. You can't say we still don't all participate, sitting back and observing rather than attempting to find a solution, otherwise our crime rate wouldn't be what it is. We make private out of "humane", rather than making a example for all to witness. I'll even suggest if we made a few public displays of punishment or torture that every American over the age of 12 would be tuned in to watch. Humans are what they are humans. Doesn't matter if its us or a third world country. Shadow
posted by
Keshet
on January 30, 2006 at 5:38 AM
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Do you want them to be like us ....
or do you want us to be like them?
posted by
fwmystic
on January 30, 2006 at 5:15 AM
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Corbin
I have always thought us too soft, that the nation as a whole does not have the stomach for such violence. I looked at both links. Animals...and the people to applaud such an act is beyond my ability to understand. Makes me sick. No wonder they think Gitmo is a club med.
posted by
Offy
on January 30, 2006 at 4:37 AM
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Corbin,
Before I came to the Middle East to live, I was required to learn a bit about the culture. To be truthful no amount of orientation could prepare an individual for what I have seen and come to understand...and this even in a more peaceful country. Americans typically do not understand the idea of tyranny and oppression, and they seem to be closing their eyes to the fact that these people will kill their own without batting an eye and they do all of this in the name of their religion. They have no regard or respect for human life...not even their own.
posted by
ms_bradrock
on January 30, 2006 at 3:31 AM
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Corbin, I did not look at your links...I made the mistake of looking at
at some links on an article I was reading on Indonesia a few years ago. It took a long time to get rid of the photo in my mind, and I don't think it was anywhere near the graphic nature of the link you describe. It's a shame that most Americans are so soft...so touchy-feely. We are a big hearted people, and caring...but there are too many of us who do not understand that there are other peoples of the world who are completely different from us ... not just physically, and culturally, but completely different in their mindset of hatred toward us leading to their united desire to dominate us, oppress us, and even kill us if we refuse to submit to their beliefs. I get so weary of hearing lines similar to tthe following: "Most of these people are just like us...they want good things for their children like we doand they want peace just like we do... they aren't our enemies , just their leaders are." HOW NAIVE! Those children are taught in their pre-school years to fear and to hate westerners, and by the time they are teenagers they have been sufficiently programmed to blow themselves up for the glory of their god to the delight of their families...those nice, peace loving people.. Then there are those others who are godless...definitely not touchy-feely who are led by a mentally unstable leader who would nuke us...who will nuke us...as soon as he gets the chance. We have enemies WHO DO NOT VALUE HUMAN LIFE. They are NOTHING like us. We do not put people upside down in woodchippers, or drop them into vats of acid, or impale them...It saddens me...sickens me that there are those individuals within our own government who are denigrating our military's treatment of the Gitmo prisoners. I do not believe that freedom of speech, guaranteed under the first amendment, extends to the treasonous act of giving aid and comfort to our enemies. Senator Dick Durbin and his supporters are doing no less than giving aid and comfort to our enemies in this time of war every single time they ciritcize our country and our government in their pathetic attempts to appease the jihadists.
posted by
muser
on January 30, 2006 at 2:31 AM
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posted by
reasons
on January 30, 2006 at 1:50 AM
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