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Thanks guys,
I support America. I support all of us who live here and any opinions they may have. But it is correct; when corbin, mongeaux, I, etc, express our opinions we are in an "us vs. them" mode. When those opposed express theirs it's the best thoughts to come out of a human mind since the beginning of time. I am not smart. I may have a bit of common sense. I may be opinionated. I do have the ability to look at a set of circumstances and come up with some common sense ideas to the deal. Our Congress voted overwhelmingly to give President Bush the authority to do what we have been discussing for most of this day. I don't agree with a lot of it, but I can live with it. The Democrats all said, and they are on record, how bad Saddam was and what we needed to do with him. We take care of him and they backpedal. I don't understand what is the problem with our media, the left, the Democrats, and the rest who say they are whatever. I apply common sense to most of the things I do, except when it comes to women and then I totally lose it.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 4:44 PM
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Well, were in good company........
What I don't understand is........
Those that choose to constantly ridicule and attack the President...and sometimes this country as a whole, are expressing their opinions.....
Those of us that choose to support this President and have a love for all that is America express our opinions... and we are told that we are promoting an "us vs. them" mentality?
Go figure.......LOL
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 2, 2006 at 4:17 PM
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LOL!
You are both Muses! An inspiration to art is a joy for all.
How many condemnatory blog entries have you inspired so far? I am at two in the last 3 days. We ought to keep track.
posted by
Mongeaux
on January 2, 2006 at 4:09 PM
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sarooster
It looks like we're becoming famous....even a song dedicated to us........
Toooo funny.
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 2, 2006 at 4:04 PM
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Saroo...
Time and time again you mention this "left" who hates the President. You see, it's your "Us vs. Them" mentality that really poses a threat to the true American values of freedom and liberty for all its citizens.
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 3:54 PM
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Corbin...
If you're addressing me with this: "Do you think your the only one maintaining that he has done all of these "illegal" thing going into Iraq and since" then please go back and actually read the details of this discussion. Nowhere did I even suggest that Bush went into Iraq illegally.
Rather, I like the fact that Congress allowed the President the unilateral power to completely screw the pooch in Iraq. It's just one more example of his complete and utter incompetence.
By the way, of the major conflicts that the US has participated in since WWII, only one qualifies as a success. Otherwise, allowing the President unfettered access to the might of the US military has proven several times to be little more than folly. Korea and Vietnam immediately leap to mind.
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 3:52 PM
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A good comment corbin,
I think we are doing fine here. Several administrations before President Bush used the same surveillance tactics as he is using. The fight is in Iraq, not New York or Iowa. Our economy is doing fine. The stock market has done me well. I think we are going in the right direction. It's the left that just hates President Bush. They attack him and anyone who thinks he is doing fine.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 3:50 PM
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The point is that....
how may wars have we been involved in since then without the same declaration you so strongly opine for........
We hear nothing but outcries that he is violating laws, both domestic and international.....most tied to the premise that said violations revolve around the fact that he has no authority.....no declaration of war.
Seems like we have a great deal of precedent here.
Do you think your the only one maintaining that he has done all of these "illegal" thing going into Iraq and since. There most be two dozen blogs here whining the same line.....
Put all of the posturing here aside and tell me this.....
Ever since this man has taken office...he has been continuously attacked with claims of wrongdoing.........
None of them have proven factual. In very simple terms....Do you not think that if there was any kind of violation of a American or International law that was something more than conjecture.....the LIBDem leadership would be in front of the cameras with their evidence. They sole purpose has become ...bring this President down. But they can't.....because it's just like what you state here.....it's all opinions and speculation......
Now it's every Americans' right to say the things you and so many others have said.........but saying them over and over again....doesn't make them become true.....
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 2, 2006 at 3:44 PM
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Saroo...
Your "Us vs Them" mindset is so deeply rooted that you can't even imagine that it's more than just the "left" that disapproves of George W. Bush. Most of America now disapproves of him. As of December 18th, 2005 more than 50% of Americans disapprove of his job performance.
Beyond numbers, however, there's the real issue of his failed presidency. He has failed to "smoke 'em out and bring 'em to justice." He failed miserably to provide relief to even his own people in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. He has failed to generate a balanced budget, much less a budget surplus. He has failed to justify his invasion of Iraq with the weapons of mass destruction that his administration "knew" Iraq had. And he has now failed the founding principles of the United States of America which provides for the protection of individual privacy unless probable cause calls for an invasion of that privacy. (A peace activist discussing the failures of the Iraq invasion does not constitute probable cause by any stretch of any law.)
I don't hate Bush. I just think his administration has been a string of major failures and I think that people like you (with your Us vs. Them mentality) will never acknowledge that the emperor wears no clothes. And that frightens me.
Before you go off all half cocked by calling me a leftist, you should know that I worked inside the Intelligence Community for more than 20 years. I was a Reagan Republican and felt utter disgust with Clinton's immature inability to keep his willy in his pants.
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 3:23 PM
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Come on dennsison,
The left loves to think of President Bush and his bunch as weak-minded.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 3:05 PM
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The Last Time,,,
Congress declared war was on December 11, 1941, against Germany in response to its formal declaration of war against the United States.
I don't understand the significance of such a question.
And if memory serves, I think it was predicted that "the left" (again, the Us vs Them mindset) would ridicule the President as a simple man.
Funny, that prediction seems to have been abandoned.
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 2:15 PM
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corbin,
I am almost ashamed to say I don't know about the Declaration of War question. I am going to guess it was World War II though! I also started to write a comment about the original intent of my post. I was just trying to say that President Bush can break down the big issues and come out with a quote like that to make it hard to questions. Of course, the left always has that "yes, but......" type of comeback and I think that is what you saw in most of the comments after that.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 2:01 PM
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Perhaps DM....
could tell us the last time Congress has issued a "Declaration of War"?
What is the point of your question? It is a nice distraction from the original intent of this post...
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on January 2, 2006 at 1:54 PM
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dennison,
I can live with the opinions you have of the war and what we have been doing for the past few years. I think the reason we are trying to fight the terrorists over there and keep on eye on them over here is so they don't surprise us again. I know they would dearly love to hit us again, but we are much more diligent than we were before. We have our military taking the hits now for us and that is the way it should be. War is not fun and it is a terrible thing. Yet, at times, it is the only way to protect ourselves. Whether we agree with our President or not it was his decision and he made it. We can't quarrel with that now. We have to take what has gone on and is going on and work from there.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 12:52 PM
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I Read The Document...
attached to Mongeaux's link. According to that document, the responsibility for the invasion of Iraq lies right at the President's feet. He has squandered tens of thousands of innocent American and Iraqi lives chasing phantom weapons of mass destruction.
Thank you for showing me the truth.
You are no better protected from al-Qaida today than you were on September 10th, 2001 because you can never sufficiently protect yourself from ambush. Ambush surprises by design! When the next attack occurs, you will recognize that all the domestic spying, the invasion of Iraq, the invasion of Afghanistan and the tremendous loss of human life has been in vain.
It takes real courage to endure the assault. It takes real leadership to find the cause of the assault. And it takes real intelligence to effectively deal with the cause (coincidentally, the very translation of al-Qaida.)
We've seen none of the above coming from the Bush Administration. Instead, we have seen a rush to war with a nation that had little (if anything) to do with the attack of Septermber 11th. Responsibility for the fiasco of the past five years rests squarely on the shoulders of George W. Bush...as you and Mongeaux have graciously pointed out.
Thank you both.
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 12:44 PM
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I love the socratic method
as much as anybody, questions put you in the power position. But when people answer your questions it is only courtesy to address their answers, not ignore them and throw out a new set. Be fair.
posted by
Mongeaux
on January 2, 2006 at 12:43 PM
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dennison,
Congress gave up the right to decalre war in the declaration that Mongeaux gave us the link to. It was up to the President after that to do what he thought was right. For better or worse depending on our opinioins the President has done what he thought was right. I don't think we can split hairs legally on this too finely. We are at war against what probably amounts to several groups. If the point is there is no country to declare war on I would think the course of action would be to just sit back and get attacked at the terrorists whim. That would be pointless. I think the Congress knew they had to do something, but they did wrong by not controlling the avenue to war as they should have.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 12:30 PM
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When Did...
Congress make this declaration of war against al-Qaida, and how does that connect to the invasion of Iraq?
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 12:24 PM
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yes DM
We are at war and Al Quaeda (under the leadership of Osama Bin Laden) sent those terrorists to America to attack us. You are correct.
posted by
Mongeaux
on January 2, 2006 at 12:19 PM
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dennison
I said you got on me pretty good. That's a long way from you attacking me. I have not suggested that you attacked me. I have been attacked before on here and you have not done that. You may argue your point, even vehemently, but I have not seen you attack anyone. I do think, and I will stress the point, that the link Mongeaux showed us is all the President needed to get us into battle. I am fine with that, but I think the Congress was wrong to give up what its duty is.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 12:06 PM
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So, Mong...
Are we at "war" or not? And if the Saudis on those aircraft didn't declare war on the US then who declared war on the US and then sent their soldiers out to destroy us? Was it that other Saudi, Osama bin Laden?
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 12:05 PM
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Lets not be silly
Nineteen crazed Saudis did not declare war on America and attack Wshington D.C. and New York City any more than 353 japanese Pilots decided to declare war on America and attack Pearl harbor. They were troops sent by commanders whose masters meant us harm.
posted by
Mongeaux
on January 2, 2006 at 12:03 PM
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Mongeaux,
I can handle differences of opinion between anyone. We probably all do that in life anyway. That's how we stay employed! I just hate to see facts glossed over when they are a matter of record. I hate the fact that our Congress kind of stepped aside and let the President do as he pleased. I wrote my Congressman and both Senators at the time and expressed my dismay with them. The Congress needs to take the leading role in matters such as this. Abdicating there duty to the President was to me a breach of contract with the American people. We are in the war now and the Congress can't go back and try to undo what they have done. The Democrats would like too and even a few Republicans are of the same opinion now.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 12:00 PM
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Saroo...
And when you're through chasing that phantom declaration of war, please support your slander of me by showing your readers where I've ever attacked you personally (as you've suggested here.)
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 11:59 AM
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Saroo...
Please show me where Congress declared "war" on Iraq.
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 11:57 AM
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Sarooster
Point well taken. I just wanted to state my policy on debates, in case anybody gets mad.
posted by
Mongeaux
on January 2, 2006 at 11:54 AM
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dennison,
Please just tell us all on here how you get the facts wrong about Congress and this war. I can't answer for why a few crazed Arabs, with a lot of help from others, decided to do what they did. I am glad that we have done something, or some things, to protect ourselves, whether that is politically correct or not.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 11:54 AM
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Saroo...
Answer my first question and then support your opinion of me with facts, please. Where exactly did I get my facts wrong?
Congress never declared war on Iraq. It's only your opinion that the invasion of Iraq is a war. It's not a fact (as you demand.)
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 11:52 AM
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I don't like to be confrontational either, but
as you can see mr. mann does not know what he is talking about, at least in some cases. He has gotten on me on several occasions and that is fine, but I refuse to knuckle under to someone who does not get his facts straight. Opinions are one thing, but when you get the facts wrong you have just been exposed! I can see you have done your homework and that is a valuable asset to have on this site for all of us.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 11:50 AM
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Saroo...
Let's test the depth of your knowledge and convictions here.
Please explain to me why 15 Saudi Arabians (of 19 terrorists) decided to start a "war" with humanity's most powerful nation?
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 11:48 AM
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Sarooster
I like Dennison, he's a fine blogger and made some very kind comments on my blogs. I view my role in these little debates as educational, not confrontational. And I dont do personal attacks or namecalling.
posted by
Mongeaux
on January 2, 2006 at 11:46 AM
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Mongeaux,
Thanks for that comment. Let's see the comeback on that one. You have just exposed mr. dennison man as someone who may just not know what he is talking about. How about it dennison? The evidence is there for all to see!
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 11:42 AM
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DM
Dennis it is right here, passed by the 109th Congress of the United States Of America on October 2, 2002:
Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq
posted by
Mongeaux
on January 2, 2006 at 11:35 AM
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Two issues dennison!
Congress gave the President the authority to do whatever was necessary in this fight. So your problem is with the Congress, not the President. And I can't believe you actually think this is not a war. In a legal sense, we did not have to declare war at all this time becasue Iraq never complied with the terms to end the first Gulf War. So that war, in a technical and legal sense, never ended. So President Bush has the legal authority to wage war as he sees fit in both circumstances.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 11:29 AM
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Mongeaux...
Refresh my memory, please. When did Congress declare war on Iraq? I've checked the records and can't seem to find any reflection of a legal declaration of war. Who are we at war with?
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 11:26 AM
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Um
Last I heard we were at war. War is about the plainest version of Us vs THEM there is, right? And if any of THEM are calling any of US then we should know about it. If you are calling your Aunt Tillie to get her newest brownie recipe then you don't have to worry about being listened to. If you're calling a chemical supplier to get the newest nitrate catalogue sent to your safehouse then you should worry, because you will be overheard. And that's good.
posted by
Mongeaux
on January 2, 2006 at 11:05 AM
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scoop,
It's becoming political because the big media and the left, which may be one in the same, hate George Bush. They don't care if we are safe. They want to get him any way they can. The give aid and comfort to the enemy. The United States needs only to stand together as a nation and we can wipe out any threat on this planet of any kind. We can't do that if we don't support what needs to be done.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 10:52 AM
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You can bet this old boy is as true as they get!
I am for protecting America and working with the rest of the world to end all threats to everyone. When someone runs on the wrong side of that then they will have a problem with old rooster here. How can that be so hard for you to understand? I submit sir that you are the danger not only to the United States of America but to the world.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 10:49 AM
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You're No Danger?
Of course you're no danger. Nobody ever views themself as a danger. Even the residents of a typical death row cell block rarely view them self as a danger.
Oh, wait...you quantified that statement with, "I'm only a danger if I have to be."
Meanwhile, you'll continue dividing the world into the "us vs them" mentality that leads to the danger of, say, Shock and Awe, which lead to the deaths of thousands of innocent people.
Or maybe you support the illegal surveillance of your fellow Americans who advocate peace over killing?
View yourself however you like, it's probably not a true picture anyhow.
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 9:40 AM
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DM, you hit it on the head, the "us versus them" mentality
it is going to take all of America working together, the war on terror is not a political game, but it is becoming that.
posted by
scoop
on January 2, 2006 at 9:39 AM
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If it comes down to us and al-Qaida or any terrorists then,
I am surely an "us versus them" kind of guy. I can get along with all peoples who would live in peace and harmony. I have no use for the people in the world who would harm others. I am no danger to anyone unless I have to be.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 9:35 AM
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Saroo...The REAL Problem And Danger Comes From...
people like you who actually need to divide the world into the "us vs them" mentality that clouds your thinking. I don't look at the world like that. I view the world as a project that all humanity must work on just to get it right. I'm neither Democrat, Republican, conservative nor liberal. I'm just an American.
I'm sure the Bush Administration has had its share of success stories. I'm just as sure that George W. Bush should have never filled the Oval Office.
Categorize me however you like. I don't play that game.
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 9:17 AM
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dennison,
That is a good idea. I think our intelligence agencies know how to handle calls like you advocate. My real point in the whole deal is that President Bush knows how to break downt an issue to its simplest terms. You will say that's becasue he is a simple man and that's the best he can do. This whole issue is very complicated. The President breaks it down into one statement that makes a lot of sense. That is what the American people want to hear. Of course, the people who are against President Bush wouldn't give him any credit if he solved all the worlds ills. That's why the liberals and Democrats continue to lose ground in elections.
posted by
sarooster
on January 2, 2006 at 9:10 AM
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Blagging...
I didn't do anything. George "The Wad" Bush gave them the idea when he let them know that our government feels no compunction over spying on its own citizenry. Trust me, smarter men than I serve the leaders of al-Qaida.
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 8:46 AM
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haha, good idea dm
i hope al-quada aren't spying on us now or you might have just given them a good idea. Is your phone ringing yet?
posted by
blagging
on January 2, 2006 at 8:42 AM
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If I Were An Al-Qaida Operative...
I'd dial-up every American with a phone.
DM
posted by
Dennison..Mann
on January 2, 2006 at 8:11 AM
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absolutely agree
posted by
blagging
on January 2, 2006 at 8:10 AM
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