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posted by
do_one_thing
on July 18, 2005 at 3:09 PM
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Yep, I think so too.
I agree totally with your comments. As a matter of fact I made most of those comments myself four days ago in a conversation. I have not read the comments made here. I may not. There are people who have no redeeming qualities. The sex offenders are one of those groups. Someone once made the observation that a country that will not first protect its children is in its decline and will not be long on this earth.
The horrors committed cancel any 'human rights' the bleeding hearts want to cry about. Stop wasting tears on creeps. Spend them on the children.
posted by
do_one_thing
on July 18, 2005 at 3:00 PM
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Side track reporting
Often the news will give America something to side track them. With the wars going on and president Bush's current opinion rating and the wars opinion rating. A consevative news publication will try to get you to focus on something else. Look at this situation. Okay you have a very atttractive American white female girl abducted in another governments jurisdiction. This is a great way for the government to say "Hey see we really our here to help you." Anyone notice where the recue team was from TEXAS who do you think of when you think texas? Bush, so you see theyve grabbed you attension with this and are making themselves look as good as possible. It's just one of those little conspieracy theories.
posted by
inkedforlife
on July 3, 2005 at 4:52 PM
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Alf...I know you're busy lately.
But I still wanted to leave you the link to the newest
Road Trip.
posted by
Passionflower
on June 21, 2005 at 9:01 PM
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Alf - quite a comment section you have here. Anyway, like "hub-bub" should
be made about every missing child--unfortunately that is not likely to happen in an imperfect world. The best we can do is when a child in our area is abducted--to raise the level of hub-bub ourselves to national proportions. It is a plague.
Good to see you dropping in from time to time by the way.
posted by
Hollee
on June 17, 2005 at 4:26 PM
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Alf, this is another case of the comments discussions being as interesting as the blog post itself. Your post brought up some interesting questions and the comments produced some interesting opinions.
posted by
TAPS.
on June 14, 2005 at 11:48 AM
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Passion
I came here to hear the different opinions. I still thinking about what Talion wrote, as a matter of fact. On a personal level, I have the same feelings as both Norseman and Talion, as I wrote in my comments. Those comments weren't worth writing a post on, however, I'm sure. It was a back and forth conversation, if you will. A "what if."
You've gone on a defensive here, and personal attacks are strange to me. We debate things in my family and among my friends. No one takes it personally. I'm a journalist....so free speech? I walk the walk, and I'd put my experiences up against rhetoric anyday.
I have no problem with what you said. And I'm still not sure we disagree. That was the point. I don't like blanket statements (all or none) and never will. I've never seen them hold true. All I asked was that you explain what you mean. You came back saying the exact same thing I said regarding skewed logic. A question can't be bad logic by definition. It's a question. It's easier to personally attack someone. My name? That's pretty lame...and it's actually pretty obvious for those who went to college in the East Coast. Then you talk of my family? Did I bring your family into it? It's a post on an anomymous board for crying out loud. But heaven forbid, I infringe on your freedom of speech to insult me personally. Besides, that's always easier than dealing with the question. It certainly will bring in the numbers for a post. You may notice, I won't speak on it---and it's the field in which I make my living. It's too easy and a given for me.
Norseman was speaking to a specific case. In this case, I followed through what I knew as a journalist. A good follow up post would be to pick up on that particular case and extend it given the quotes. Obviously many feel that that only the pretty people get press. That's a valid thing to look at. Talion was on the mark with that. She or he gave specific points, again made me think,. and I really respect that. I hope I had the same effect. It's a bandwagon if everyone agrees. I like to look at various sides that are grounded in specific cases. Talion did that for me. Norseman's questions sparked that. It got me thinking quite a bit, and I'm grateful for that.
The fact that I asked you to elaborate on what you meant because it was vague? Writers trying to make a point shouldn't be vague---it doesn't mean a thing that I questioned it. It just means I was throwing out questions to extend the debate.
I agree that many humans have tunnel vision regarding causes, but "all" only care about "x". That makes for a good post headline, or a good Enquirer headline, but for a writer looking for facts, it doesn't spark debate. It merely preaches to the choir. Who learns from that? That's the real meaning of freedom of speech in a productive society.
posted by
terpgirl30
on June 14, 2005 at 3:59 AM
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Alf...
What gets me is they say she's a good girl and would never do anything wrong. Yet she's there for a high school function and she's in a bar drinking? Doesn't add up.
I should hope anyone would get the same amount of attention. But like you, I suspect it's not true.
posted by
RedHeadedGypsy
on June 13, 2005 at 5:49 PM
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Alf
I agree with you. So many missing kids and some never make it to the milk carton, much less the news. Very sad!
posted by
Offy
on June 12, 2005 at 6:41 PM
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Can't we all just get along..........
posted by
A_Norseman
on June 12, 2005 at 6:31 PM
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Alf, please forgive me for my part in crapping all over your
Comments Section.
posted by
Passionflower
on June 12, 2005 at 6:14 PM
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Terpgirl...What I said was that I could assume any thing I wanted.
That's what Freedom of Speech is all about. I can say whatever I like and have whatever opinion I please. Your comments are again erroneous in their logic and reasoning.
You're still trying to tell me how to think and what to say. That might work with your husband and friends but not with me.
posted by
Passionflower
on June 12, 2005 at 6:11 PM
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Talion
I'm not 100 percent sure about the particular case and what started the ball rolling. There's still the built in news maker in that she was ready to give birth. That will always trump the run of the mill thing. Women who are *that* pregnant don't generally take a walk, especially middle class, very average people. Again, it's something the *average* person will relate to. It could be the person down the street. That scares us. It's like when you know there's a killer or rapist on the loose, but that's all you know. Sometimes that's more frightening than what really happened. In this case it keept getting more and more surreal.
As for the publicity end of it, I know John Walsh has always preached that when someone goes missing, you need to make a big fuss. The family may have connections in the media, may have made themselves very available (path of least resistence). All of that stuff plays into it.
My child ran away, and I had a PI on it immediately. I had the court docs filled out for her to be picked up. I put her up on the missing children's network immediately and circulated photos at a mall police told me she'd never go to. Well, they picked her up at one of two places I left the photos at. Families that put pressure on will get more attention. I know how to coral the media, so it will be easier for me to get attention than for many others. By the nature of the business, people in transient jobs don't tend to live stable family lives. They won't have people going to bat for them.
posted by
terpgirl30
on June 12, 2005 at 3:26 PM
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terpgirl30
All that you say is true, but think back to the beginning of the Peterson case. Long before we found out about the husband, his affairs, his double life, Lacy Peterson was simply
missing. There were the tearful appeals on the national news begging for any information, reward money offered, and finally more appeals for her safe return. Lacy Peterson was a story before there was the story we came to know. Why does the middle class housewife's mother get the national stage and not the stripper's? A nice way of saying it is it comes down to what stories will be of interest to the most amount of people. More will be concerned for whatever reason, about a suburban housewife as opposed to a stripper. A cynical way of saying it is it's all about ratings. Bigger ratings translate into bigger ad dollars, which means bigger profits. The bottom line/economics has a definite impact on what gets reported. What gets reported has a definite impact on what the country as a whole is most interested in. It's impossible for us to know everything so there must be a limit or some deciding factor, but for something like the news media, I don't believe it should be money. Hey, but that's the way it is. It could be a lot better, but it also could be a lot worse.
posted by
Talion
on June 12, 2005 at 3:04 PM
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Passion
I flat out don't understand what you said. I still don't. Can I say that more simply? To ask you a question is not getting up in your face. And getting defensive because someone questioned your logic doesn't make it any clearer. What you said doesn't make sense. Now if you want to reword it to make an opinion, I'll listen...in the interest of freedom of speech and all. As for high and mighty, you went on a vent about how Americans don't know typhoons are going on, etc. My point was, most people don't know everything. There is an information overload. It's not an intentional thing. Given that, you can't assume people don't care because they don't know the same things you know. You obviously don't like someone implying that about you.
You're absolutely right. You have the right to express whatever opinion you want. I'm still not sure we're disagreeing on it at this point since there was an obvious piece missing there. When you express your opinion, whichever side you pick, and you say something as "all X believe" or the like, you have to be prepared to explain it when someone doesn't get it or, heaven forbid, disagrees with you. You can't stick your hand up in the air, give the "whatever" or "chill" sign and think that explains it.
posted by
terpgirl30
on June 12, 2005 at 2:55 PM
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Norseman...I like the point you make here...and of course
It makes sense...Thanks for opening up another line of thought with me on this. You always do this to me. You make me consider ideas I've previously been blind to.
posted by
Passionflower
on June 12, 2005 at 2:04 PM
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Terpgirl....thanks for your rather long, informative comment...
Just as you are entitled to your opinion, so am I entitled to mine. In Amerca we have this free speech thingy...maybe you've heard of it.
If I want to say that I don't believe Americans care about things unless they happen to them or someone they know, then I CAN SAY IT! As often and as much as I want to.
Though I'm always open and willing to listen to other points of view, there's no need to get up in someone's face and get all high and mighty simply because they've taken a position opposed to yours.
Chill!
posted by
Passionflower
on June 12, 2005 at 2:01 PM
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Norseman
Thanks for taking it the right way. I did the same thing. I still have the clipping on my grandfather...one paragraph that ended up on an inside section. My cousin didn't get a regular obit. He was shot in the head and rolled out on a downtown street. That's the last I heard of it.
I still look at that clipping and wonder what he would have had to be or do to get noticed. I see so many cases that break your heart. It's that oddity. My grandfather was a guy shot during a robbery. Now, *I* know the interesting facts that a reporter would have loved to know..but I was 12 when this happened. My grandfather was shot because the guy was annoyed that he had no money to steal. That's news. It's also a crime trend that's taught with self defense courses, so it applies to people at large. Seriously, you are taught to carry "mugger" money. I had another family friend who was shot because he only had a $20 on him.
posted by
terpgirl30
on June 12, 2005 at 1:57 PM
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Passion
Just using your logic, this makes no sense. What you said, literally, is that Americans don't care about it unless 1) it happens to them personally or 2) the media tells them about it. Let's boil that down. Americans don't care about it if they don't know about it. Well, yeah. How in the world do you expect someone to care if they've never heard about it? You are putting the burden on people to "know" what they don't even "know" to look for.
You know about all of these disasters, I'm guessing, because it's something of interest to you. My husband is a ham radio operator. He is participating in an emergency communications set up with our county next week. He knows when stuff like that happens anywhere around the world. Our basement is set up like a command station, and the team literally works out of a fire training center that's set up like a bomb shelter.
He knows for the same reasons you know---he's interested.
Let me try this on you. Who is Angela Dawson? (I can name name after name if you get this one, btw) I can tell you about her chapter and verse. I had started work on a nonfiction book on her family when the kid who killed her did a plea bargain. It's no longer a whodunnit. I haven't pitched the idea because there's more to it all.
This woman, her husband and FIVE children were burned to death in an arson attack because she wouldn't let the local drug dealers use her stoop to do business. The cops answered every call. They did whatever they could. Still it happened. In Baltimore, your stoop is part of your living room. I wrote crime and law enforcement for more than a decade, so my ear goes to this stuff as opposed to natural disasters. Don't presume I don't care about the ills that befall humans elsewhere because I don't know the obscure things you know. You don't know the things that come second nature to me. I don't think you don't care because you don't know about this family...and the many, many families like them. Every time I hear the mayor's catch phrase come across the radio, I think of this family. I tear up without fail. This is just one case, mind you. So don't point up that it's one family and how can you be expected to know about it. I have file cabinets of these families.
Race, economics...no...This was a major news story. Civil rights activist Dick Gregory attended the funeral, as did Jesse Jackson. This was a dirt poor, wrong side of the tracks Black family. It was news. It was murder that crossed even the lines we've come to expect when people are murdered.
Please don't say people don't care if it doesn't happen to them as individuals. You can speak for yourself, but you're not speaking for me.
posted by
terpgirl30
on June 12, 2005 at 1:51 PM
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Passionflower...
You are right about that, but I don't think it is only Americans that are that way. I think it is a human thing. In fact, doesn't America lend more support worldwide than all the other countries do? Like when 911 happened, I'm sure people all over the world were shocked and affected by it but that feeling faded quickly because their own lives continued normally from day to day. Just as I think people on the east coast were more affected by it than people on the west coast. It may be a good and neccesary thing ultimately, otherwise whenever there was a tradgey more people would be adversly affected than not. It would be like stubbing my toe and having my whole body hurt rather than just my toe. Do you know what I mean?
posted by
A_Norseman
on June 12, 2005 at 1:48 PM
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Talion...
I suppose it is unrealistic to know the names of all the missing. It is also more than coincidence that determines which stories hit the national news. I wonder, do we the people determine what gets reported by what we watch and how we consume, or is there another force that determines it for us? I know there are plenty of stories that I couldn't care less about, like Michael Jacksons case for example. I want to know the verdict but I don't need to hear about it every day. Am I that different than the average American or does the media pursue its own agenda? Arrghh....another question.
posted by
A_Norseman
on June 12, 2005 at 1:42 PM
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Terpgirl...
I greatly appreciate your comment, it has made me feel a little better. I realize news is a business, an industry of monumental proportions. You shed some light on this for me. I guess I just thought too much about it, took it too personal. One of my virtues is the ability to put myself in the place of others, sometimes it is a liability because I go too far. Thank you.
posted by
A_Norseman
on June 12, 2005 at 1:34 PM
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Talion
Again, I go back to the news definition. Why do you know the name Lacy Peterson? Think about it. The beauty queen power couple, madly in love, expecting the first child. She died, as did her child...by a husband who made them disappear...who was having an affair...making the woman think he was traveling all over the place. The guy had a second life. He seemed the unlikely type for any of this. It's the kind of whodunit people make up. We don't want to think it really happens. You get crimes of passion logically. We all get wild and hysterical at times, but most don't cross the line. The news is when someone does, and it's someone you wouldn't expect. It's someone people STILL doubt was capable of it all. He stayed with her family. A killer in the family home. It's the thing many of us fear---that's why it's news. If the unthinkable could happen in such an unlikely way, and if the family could be fooled into not only believing him and supporting him---could we?
posted by
terpgirl30
on June 12, 2005 at 1:34 PM
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Alf...in my opinion, your assessment is correct.
I've noticed this one thing about Americans: unless something is happening to them or a family member or unless an incident is hammered home by the news media, we rarely care.
Here's a good example: at any given time there are at least half a dozen 'declared disasters occuring in the US or a US territory. Did anyone hear about the typhoon and flooding last month in American Samoa?
No! They didn't . Did anyone hear about those severe snow/rain storms that hit Alaska around Christmas? Probably another big NO! We currently have:
- 2 declarations working in CA
- 2 working in PA
- 1 in NY/1 in NJ
- 1 in Utah and 1 in AZ
- Plus the ones in Alaska and American Samoa
People just don't care unless 'whatever it is' happens to them or unless the news media keeps it in their faces!
posted by
Passionflower
on June 12, 2005 at 1:11 PM
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A_Norseman
Here in Memphis, there was a recent case of a missing woman. It recieved plenty of air time on the local news, but there was nothing about it on a national scale. It wasn't strictly about race. The missing woman was white, but there had to be a reason why everyone in the country wasn't alerted to the fact that she was gone. Maybe it was because she was a stripper. I use the past tense because the missing woman's remains were recently found in rural Mississippi. Granted, national coverage wouldn't have saved her life (she was murdered, her body dumped immediately), but I can't help but wonder why we don't know her name, but we all know Lacy Peterson.
posted by
Talion
on June 12, 2005 at 1:07 PM
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I'm giving you the news definition
News is proximity and time. It's also unusual in nature. This sort of thing doesn't happen in Aruba generally. In the Cayman Islands, the "police" run around in shorts and don't carry weapons. The town rolls up around 10 pm. Dog bites man is not news. Man bites dog is news. I've had family members murdered myself. In my city, that's not big news anymore, unfortunately.
The murder of this girl doesn't have as much to do about her appearance as you are making it sound. You are saying you are asking a question, but the implication is obvious. No one would care. My family members were poor, from a bad part of town. My grandfather got a paragraph. He was just a guy.
It's more than that, however. With this girl, there were lots of oddities---school trip, safe country, disappearance..going to the beach with strangers...strangers volunteering to look for her. There are lots of news angles to this. In Baltimore, a couple on their honeymoon heard it on TV in Aruba. They spent their last day there looking for the girl with volunteers. So, it's been on the news here in Baltimore. We have a connection through the feelings of this couple.
The couple said any time it was mentioned on TV in Aruba, the locals gasped. Again, it's not normal for the area. Their little world has been rocked. That's news.
posted by
terpgirl30
on June 12, 2005 at 1:01 PM
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Thanks for the comment Kingmi.
posted by
A_Norseman
on June 12, 2005 at 12:55 PM
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Alfie, It doesn't look good. As for the racism, I guess it's ingrained in
the economy. The rich just get richer and the poor can get lost. But here we have death, the great leveler, testing our mortality and inhumanity to one another. Sad.
posted by
kingmi
on June 12, 2005 at 12:54 PM
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