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Once again interesting
It is great to see everyone sharing their stories. And great that such conversations can be started.
I grew up in the suburbs of New York but there was a good mix of races and cultures in my town: Irish, Italian, German, Jamacan, Puerto Rican, African...
As far as blacks having an inferiority complex I don't know if I can attest to that. I was invited to a friends house for Christmas two years ago (a black friend) but didn't feel that they were too self conscious or anything around me. But I guess that is just one person, one family.
Anyways, interesting post - I will be back
posted by
smartdog_670
on May 16, 2005 at 10:08 PM
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mhw...
that's crazy...the way ppl act as if being born white was a high priviledge...i'm trying to teach my half black kids to be proud of their skin color, but they get some racism from outside. I love James Brown's words "Say it loud, i'm black and proud".
Have you watched Ice T's video "Colors"?
Do you know how much i envy Blacks for the quality of their skin? They barely look old, even at an advanced age...very few whites can claim to have such a good skin when they get older...
posted by
Marshallengraved
on May 16, 2005 at 9:25 PM
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Thanks, MHW
I could figure out much of the stuff with my son intellectually, if that makes sense...It was trying to make him get it that was the tough part. When he was in school, he was one of the guys. Outside, it was different. He had to borrow class notes one time, and we went to a boy's house, and though I knew they were friends, he kept it very arm's length.
It didn't help that we were in a magnet school district. The area was fairly lower middle class to middle class, and the school district wasn't great. Ryan was singled out because he had gone to a private school, jumped a grade already, etc. So, he was already ahead of the magnet school kids. I'm sure that didn't help. He was no choir boy. He wouldn't do the yo boy thing, but he he liked the idea of people throwing stink bombs in the boys' bathroom. I can't prove his involvement, but I'm his mother---so I know it. When they smile a little too long about something, it's best not to ask.
posted by
terpgirl30
on May 16, 2005 at 7:48 PM
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I wrote a related post
Interesting, I wonder what you would think of my post entiled "Same-Sex Marriage; are we repeating history?" Have a look and tell me what you think. I compare the struggle of black americans with that of the gay rights movement.
Views from the True North
posted by
NorthernYankee
on May 16, 2005 at 5:57 PM
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Ariala, you're very welcome.
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 4:50 PM
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MHW, yes, I did and I responded...thank you so much for sharing your
thoughts and experiences with me.
posted by
Ariala
on May 16, 2005 at 4:47 PM
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Ariala, speaking of your mom, did you receive the e-mail I sent you?
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 4:41 PM
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MHW, I'm okay...reading about your grandfather reminded of my mom
and how at times she had difficulty swallowing food...she had colon cancer and then it went into the liver...I could relate because she waited to get herself checked out...waited too late.
posted by
Ariala
on May 16, 2005 at 4:38 PM
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Ariala, thank you for reading. And how're you doing, pal?
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 4:34 PM
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Well done...every single person has these issues to contend with, whether
black or white, one must deal with the issues that face his or her life.
posted by
Ariala
on May 16, 2005 at 4:28 PM
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Ukie, I agree with you. In fact, I think it's time for a "New Movement"
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 4:25 PM
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Ukie, or, at least, it should be. Unfortunately, there are some people who
come up with their own renditions of that lovely lady; not wearing the blindfold.
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 4:23 PM
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that should have read...
the Americans I love come in all shapes, sizes and colors!
posted by
QuailNest
on May 16, 2005 at 4:21 PM
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the American Dream
I love come in all ethnicities. Many are enjoying being created equal and are excersizing their inaliable rights. On the flip side of the coin, many Amicans are in a class of their own, with chips on their shoulders and are ignorantly being more prejudgice than those they percieve they are being discriminated by. In reality, the low lifes who insist on blaming others for their misfortune, are responsible for their own destiny and if they are indeed American: it is time they step up to the plate and become productive citizens.
All the blacks I've met in Africa are less hung up on their color than any of us. I'd like to see them get over it and get on with it...the American Dream.
posted by
QuailNest
on May 16, 2005 at 4:19 PM
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Justice
is colorblind
posted by
QuailNest
on May 16, 2005 at 4:09 PM
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ZenResistance, thanks for reading. & as you said, what is expressed in the
post could apply to just about any group of human beings. American blacks are not the only ones who have a gigantic inferiorty complex. When get right down to it, every group in the world has that problem. In fact, I think the Russians are tops on the list ... but I'll go into that some other time.
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 4:05 PM
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cutting and insightful
Remarkable post.
I grew up in the rural South, in a small milltown of about a 7:3 ratio of blacks to whites. Maybe I grew up in an anomaly, because the problems you described really weren't quite as such when I was growing up in the early 70s. It wasn't until I moved to large cities that I saw what you're saying. I was horrified.
Your post is well-written and quite insighftul, and it could be applied to several groups of people and even Humanity in general.
If only people could make that move forward.
Well done.
posted by
zenresistance
on May 16, 2005 at 3:51 PM
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TerpGirl, your comment would actually make a great post. Thank you for
sending it my way. Also, there are some complex dynamics behind the reason why the black kids never invited your son to their homes. I could write an entire book about it, but briefly, black men, especially younger ones, tend to be very selective about the types of white males they admit into their "world." Oftentimes, the only kinds of young white males that young black males admit to their "worlds" are the ones who "act black" or like they're "real down dudes." You know, like the "Eminem" types.
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 3:40 PM
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A Norseman, thanks for the thumbs up. Soon, I am going to start submitting
posts about what I consider to be solutions to our nation's racial problems.
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 3:24 PM
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I grew up on the City/County line
so I saw many types of people. I worried when my children were coming up that their view would be a bit skewed but not because we had no colors around us. I had married and moved to a pretty elite part of the state. The kids were going to a private school. There was intense cultural diversity; however, they were almost all from the diplomatic corp. I was afraid they'd expect people from the city to behave the same way. Luckily, because that's my mom's background, and they went to her little rowhouse all the time, they got the idea of different quickly as just different...not better or worse. To this day, my son (16) will tell you about walking up the road to eat hotdogs at a stand with my mom. The hoot is, the place didn't have inside booths, so you literally had to sit outside next to the street. My son thought that was part of the ambiance.
They ended up with a pretty balanced view of it all...okay there was that one girl with both an indoor and outdoor pool. Her nanny brought her to school. (We were in construction, so we weren't among the social strata there. I had to hold a full time job to keep them there.)
You find out soon enough if you've done what you should have. My daughter came home from school one day to tell me about this beautiful girl in her class. She told me of the wonderful dress she had on that day, how nice she smiled, how smart she was in class, etc. It wasn't until about the 6th thing or so that I started to get that she wasn't White. It wasn't the top descriptor for Ashley. The dress was more important. That was a big "AHA!" moment for me. I never wanted the kids to favor a child because he's from another race; I just don't want it to be the first thing that pops into the reasons why you like being around/dislike being around someone.
When I moved to the county, about 1/2 White, 1/2 a mix of Indian and Black, Ryan, my son, wanted so much to be friends with the kids. It was so disappointing to me that he never got invited to any of the homes of his Black friends from school. He really didn't understand. We invited people all the time, and many times it was a serious hesitation. That's a very difficult thing to explain to kids on either side of that equation.
posted by
terpgirl30
on May 16, 2005 at 2:56 PM
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MHW...
I couldn't agree more with your estimation of the problem. In fact it echoed some sentiments in a post about racism I did some time ago, the part about reconizing the problem before you can find a cure. I do however feel or at least hope that with each generation it gets a little better. When I was a long haul truck driver I was much more in touch with the beat of the nation because I was everywhere, in every neighborhood all the time and it served to remind me that everything isn't quite OK, not yet. It is easy to forget when you are in a particular part of the country for a long time. Keep up the good work.
posted by
A_Norseman
on May 16, 2005 at 2:56 PM
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MHW - I see just the opposite ...
the kids at my daughter's school think because all the great athletes they see on TV are black, they are automatically better athletes than the other kids. They think because they hear rappers on the radio, they automatically can sing and dancer better than anyone. And because TV shows blacks acting the fool and getting by, they think they can do the same as well.
posted by
fwmystic
on May 16, 2005 at 2:40 PM
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Talion, using a little old-school lingo, YOU'RE ONE O' MAH MAIN MEN
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 1:31 PM
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mightyholywarrior
Thanks. I'm glad I could serve as the inspiration.
posted by
Talion
on May 16, 2005 at 1:27 PM
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Numinous, I, too, am optimistic about the future. Things are going to be
tough for a while -- but in the future, a lot of good things are going to happen in the area of race relations.
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 1:22 PM
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MarshallEngraved, there is a "skin complex" in my own family, as well in
the families of many other American blacks.
In my family, for instance, my mother's side doesn't like my father's side. And that is because my mother's family is made up by a lot of "half breeds" and other light-skinned types, while most of the members of my father's family have very dark complexions.
And when I was a little kid, many of the children in my grammar school (which was all-black) always said the following poem: "When you're white you're right. When you're light you're bright. When you're brown stick around. And when you're black get back."
The world is a very fucked up place, ain't it?
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 1:17 PM
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The scars of injustice
Injustice is the hardest of all tests to human kind, and life never seems to be long enough for us to work through it. (I have been on the recieving end of injustice in a big way) To say "forgive it and move on" sounds flippant and callous, but it is truly the only way to recovery. I wish there was a way that I, or anyone, could change history, but that is impossible.
But, for what it is worth, I wish the black race well, and that they as a family will find a way to move past the past.
posted by
Numinous
on May 16, 2005 at 1:16 PM
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Canty, thank you very much. & I learned almost everything I know about
writing at 20th Street Elementary School in South-Central Los Angeles.
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 1:05 PM
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OffBeatPub, thank you for reading. & I don't think you should be too con-
cerned about how your grandchildren will deal with other kinds of people in the future.
I say that because I know, from personal experience, that a good education and good upbringing in the home are the keys.
For example, from grades K-12, each of the schools I attended were all-black, but I received a very good education. And at home, my parents taught me to always be prepared to deal with "new challenges." So once I went out into the world and started coming in contact with a considerable number of whites for the first time in my life, I did not have very much trouble at all.
In my opinion, it is OK for people to mostly only be around "their own," as long as they are aware and/or taught that there is a separate world out there where they will have to deal with people who are "different" from them.
Looking at this from another angle, over the years, I have met plenty of white people who had never been around blacks before, but once they were in situations where they had to be around a number of them, they did just fine -- and that was usually because they were well-educated people who had come from homes in which their parents had raised them to be able to deal with "new challenges."
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 1:03 PM
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you write very well
posted by
calmcantey75
on May 16, 2005 at 12:51 PM
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I know that Africans...
actually do have a complex, a skin complex in France too...maybe they need to re-learn that "Black is beautiful"...but well i know that it ain't always simple...when you're skin is darker, you're always singled out as"black", "a black man" or "a black woman"...when you're white, nobody says "look at this white woman", ppl say look at this "woman"...whites also need to get reeducated and realize that the way they talk about colored ppl is often very impolite.
posted by
Marshallengraved
on May 16, 2005 at 12:33 PM
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MHW
Good read, did not realize the % 's were that high and diverse. Your father reminds me of my brother when it comes to going to the doctor though, and he is deceased as well.
I'am going to tell you something from my side of the street, if you will. I dislike where I live, there is no flavor. I just moved here from South FL. and before that Dallas. Here in my little town, we have no other race than white. There has never been a black live in this town. Back when the government told the city it would be receiving students from Canton McKinley, (big school) the town people got together. In their ignorance they proposed to the federal gov't, we will not accept any federal funds, we will take care of our own. To this day it has remained the same. O sure the schools are beauitful and the children seem happy, but they don't know any different. My grand children have never seen a black person except what they see on TV. Now they love mexican food, but they have no concept of what a mexican is. I fear when they grow up they will remain in this lilly white town doing lilly white things and never get to experience the wonderful flavors of our world.
I didn't mean to go on, but that complex you were talking about may not just be with the black race.
posted by
Offy
on May 16, 2005 at 12:33 PM
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Talion, who do you think inspired me to write this post? (U, my man)
posted by
Feenix
on May 16, 2005 at 12:18 PM
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mightyholywarrior
This is the point I tried to make in a comment to you several posts ago. Giving up, believing they cannot do any better than their present situations and refusing to try is what hurts our cummunity more than any political party or judicial decision. As long as we don't love ourselves and our brethren, we are doomed.
posted by
Talion
on May 16, 2005 at 12:15 PM
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