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pappy -- you have gone off on a tangent here
I don't disagree that each individual constructs their own perceptions within their own belief system but the building blocks for that construction are most certainly provided from a common pool of perception. You may have missed the point in that it is not likely that Jesus Christ was blond haired, blue eyed and fair skinned. (though admittedly we just do not know) My mother manufactured this dream of Jesus coming to her from her own internal imagery and perceptual influences (it is a certainty that if she were an adherant to Islam it would have been Mohhamed instead) but the image itself was constructed by someone else. In this case a Swedish painter who in his world or at least in his mind everyone has blonde hair, blue eyes and fair skin. Now you have probably seen one of the latest digital re-compilations from the Shroud of Turin. Again Jesus has blond hair and blue eyes. The painting that my mother has in her hallway is a famous depiction of Jesus Christ, it is a work of art that has travelled the globe and has been reproduced countless times. It is not likely that the painter living in Sweden during the 30's has any more idea of what Jesus Christ looked like than you or I do but his painting has influenced the personal imagery of countless people. This, whether you want to call it something else or not is a construct of mankind.
posted by
gomedome
on January 6, 2005 at 5:15 AM
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Your mother had the dream, gomedome, not mankind
My point was that we believe whatever we want. Everybody chooses the things they live by and no two people believe all the same things. "Mankind" has given us a smorgasbord of things to look at, but every single person's beliefs are their own, not the handed down complete package of some other person or group. I am becoming a Catholic by choice, but there are many in the church who believe Vatican II went too far, and many others who don't think it went far enough.
posted by
pappy
on January 5, 2005 at 7:07 PM
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pappy -- you lost me on that one
I am referring to other people or peoples as mankind and what they have constructed in their minds over a few millenia. For example, my ultra religious mother claims to have had a dream about Jesus coming to her. A blonde haired, blue eyed and fair skinned Jesus which may be possible I guess but she claimed he looked just like this picture she has of him hanging in her hallway. The picture was painted in Sweden. What more can I say.
posted by
gomedome
on January 5, 2005 at 6:43 PM
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I'm not sure i believe in mankind, gomedome
There is me, and the things i believe; there is you and what you believe; and another and another. But mankind? The beliefs of mankind? I can respect your ideas whether i agree or not because they come from YOU, a person whom i assume really exists. I can even respect Kooka's opinions, though i don't leave comments there anymore because it is like poking a bear in a cage with a stick. But mankind does not exist outside of an idea and respect does not apply.
posted by
pappy
on January 5, 2005 at 6:35 PM
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pappy -- you are decribing all of the reasons I refer to myself
as an agnositc and not an athiest. There are more than a few things such as you describe that are beyond imagining as being random. That however does not reconcile for me what mankind has constructed in a set of belief systems.
posted by
gomedome
on January 5, 2005 at 6:26 PM
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You are right on the money about American guilt, gomedome
But apparently i am one of the 5% who doesn't feel it. My training was biochemistry and believe it or not, logic brought me to faith's door. There is too much of the Sherlock Holmes in me to ignore the coincidence that there are about a hundred billion proteins in a cell, about a hundred billion cells in a body, the same number of brains on this planet, the same number of stars in the galaxy, and maybe the same number of galaxies within the radius of the Hubble distance away. It is the principle of life that we see through all sizes and time. It is the life principle that concentrates matter and cancels out the physics of entropy which disperse it. Now i will admit, gomedome, that it was some other thing that got me to step through that door, but that is a different discussion.
posted by
pappy
on January 5, 2005 at 3:31 PM
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What matters, as someone said somewhere,
is not whether you believe in God, but whether God believes in you!
Experience creates perspective, and reveals more and more of the Big Picture. Some folk arrive at the view of non-belief, no longer needing Santa Claus to celebrate Christmas.
Some just reinterpret Santa, and continue to celebrate the magic...
posted by
Ciel
on January 5, 2005 at 8:36 AM
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