Go to Seeking Limits of Mankind, and Limits of God
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Thank you my friend GM
These are issues that I am keeping in mind for further discussions later, and I'll try to incorporate all of them in my ongoing posts. As of the moment, my university has opened, but my classes will start from 24th July as I am concerned with teaching only the prev and the Final year students. Some editing work until then I am required to. complete. In the meanwhile I have posted a few more . Cheers 
posted by
anib
on July 7, 2017 at 9:33 PM
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The More Important Reasons for Failure to "Learn"
My dear friend Anib..... You have touched on a lot of issues with your last comment, another excellent comment….. another virtual can of worms, LOL. As to the reason that people do not “learn” their moral lessons quickly, but instead take many lifetimes, I see two elements that you and almost everyone else are ignoring.
First, as I explained in my post “The Nature of Evil”, there are two moral paths in the universe, that go in pretty much opposite directions, of good and evil. One is a path of love, service to others, generosity, compassion, etc. The other is a path of hate, hostility, service to self, abuse of others, domination, etc. Most evil people are evil because they enjoy it, and they are willingly following a different path of spiritual advancement. Now, let us take the implications of this crucial fact further.
So they, the predatory evil ones, the irredeemable evil ones, are learning different moral lessons than us, and I think there are teachers aplenty, in this world and the next. The evil are taking different classes, and pursuing a different degree, in a different university. God allows this, why I do not know, or perhaps He cannot prevent it. And the evil ones can advance to very high levels, both in this world and the next. They do not need to be "good" to advance.
Consider the level of Satan and his demon comrades, or the high level of your Hindu “gods” that manifest themselves as destroyers and abusers. I think there is more than one of these. With just a bit of research, I discovered the names Kali, Krodha, Himsa, Dambha, Maya, Adharma, Naraka, Yama, and Bhairava. So, predatory people and entities can advance very high in the spiritual hierarchy, and they HAVE NO DESIRE to learn their “moral” lessons, except how to abuse and dominate more victims, and gain more power. I think they can “graduate” out of reincarnation, just as “good” people can, and then continue to advance in their own spiritual hierarchy. Satan is not forced to reincarnate, nor are your Hindu predatory entities, though they can incarnate among us if they wish to. They have their own immoral principles, their own hierarchy and pecking order, their own realm, their own vast horde of victim-subjects, and their own support system. They do have a moral code that binds them in alliance, the proverbial “honor among thieves”. They have no need, and no interest, in learning the principles of goodness that you and I value. They scoff at our principles, they despise us, and they use our good principles against us, as I described in my post, “The Great Advantages Of Evil”. I think everyone who reads this comment, should go back and read that post.
Goodness, and especially good people here on Earth, are in much greater danger that they generally realize, and they are falsely comforted by their religions, which tend to downplay the power of predatory evil, and give the believers a dangerous sense of false security. I am trying to wake people up, out of their religious slumber.
The second element that explains why it takes many lives and thousands of years to learn simple moral lessons, is simply that we are robbed of our memories when we enter a new baby body. To me, this is a colossal crime against each and every one of us, by our cosmic superiors. There is a great deal of religious doctrine that you can recite to me, explaining why this is done and why it is necessary for our own benefit.
I reject all those excuses, and I think this robbing of our memories is done to keep us from advancing at anything more than a snail’s pace in a marathon race. I don't know why we are retarded and slowed in this way, but I think it is NOT for our benefit.
One reason I think this, is that I have read accounts of hundreds of people who were able to regain their memories of past lives, and the period BETWEEN their past lives, and their current life was greatly benefitted. Upon gaining these memories, strange physical wounds and pains disappear from their bodies. They gain understanding of WHY certain things are happening in their lives, they can connect the dots, and they are immensely happy that they have their memories back. They understand their current relationships better, why they are joined to some people and separated from others, the karmic reasons behind their conflicts with others, and their relationships improve vastly.
If you are interested in my sources for this, I have many, but the best one is Dr. Michael Newton, with his four books “Journey of Souls”, “Destiny of Souls”, “Life Between Lives” and “Memories of The Afterlife”. They are all astounding and life-changing books. Dr. Newton does not regard the robbing of our memories to be a crime against us, as I do, or rather I should say that he does not offer an opinion, but he has discovered a way to regain our memories and the great benefits that flow therefrom. So as a doctor, he concentrates on the healing and the well-being and the spiritual advancement of the technique. But it should go without saying that if the regaining of our memories is so miraculously beneficial, then the blocking or robbing of our memories upon birth is extremely harmful. Cheers
posted by
GoldenMean
on July 6, 2017 at 8:49 PM
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Re: Six that should be
posted by
anib
on July 6, 2017 at 2:45 AM
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Dear GoldenMean
I'll try to answer your three questions as best as I understand. First, why people take ages to learn things - the answer that things that appear simple to a morally good man is not all that simple to people a mad man, brutes in their own rights. Hitler for example, and then there are scores like Osama bin Ladens and the present-day Abu Bakr al Baghdadis. Can you ever expect them to learn their life's lesson in one birth? Even for understanding simple truths, they take ages.
To me, the New Age philosophy is all rubbish. God, we all know, does everything perfect the first time. Men continuously go on revising editions for perfection, better than the previous. God felt that 'the Vedas are too tough on the understanding for man, I must revise for the sake of simplifying' (my version) - that is how one religion after another came in, man-made in all possibilities, in their fall. The last to come was Sikhism. They are known as Sikhs from the word 'Sikhkhars' meaning one who is new to, a neophyte, a lesrner. By that token the latest, New Age conception and their followers must be the worst human types.
The third, Krishna's hurry - you give a good example of the time warp, starting to bend. There is a difference of the concepts of the easterner and a westerner. Bible says God created the world in seven days, and on the seventh he took rest (and, to add a pun, He has been resting since then). Krishna says in the Gita, not for a moment I take rest, the entire cosmic order would collapse, otherwise. Eastern thinking is that whatever comes to manifestation must be preceded by a desire, Will that is. So God Willed the world, and the World was there! That simple! This can be best illustrated in a dream sequence. A man sees his entire life in a dream before dying, starting from birth. It is like seeing as if living, in rewind. The elapsation in time has not happened yet. At least not until he comes to wakefulness. So, Time is thus, the interval between two consciousnesses. Linear time-wise, hours may have elapsed but for the one dreaming it is just a fraction of a moment. One other thing, nobody is an atheist in dreams! Cheers
.
posted by
anib
on July 6, 2017 at 1:15 AM
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In regard to the time issue
..... also, I am having difficulty with the time-lag or time-warp or time-compression concept, in which Arjuna received volumes of knowledge and comprehended them, in a split-second, as it were. It seems more likely that Krishna was crafting his words and his message to accomplish the most, in the least amount of time, due to the urgency of the situation, in the middle of a battlefield.
posted by
GoldenMean
on July 5, 2017 at 6:16 AM
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Anib
..... sorry, in the last comment, when I wrote "and if you agree with them, you are enabling them to continue their horrific oppression of humanity", I did not mean you personally, but 'you' in general, meaning the entire Hindu religion, and Buddhist religion, and New Agers. In other words, all those collectively who think it is normal for us to forget all the lessons we learned and knowledge we acquired in past lives, and be forced to learn everything all over again. To me, this is a form of oppression.
posted by
GoldenMean
on July 5, 2017 at 5:57 AM
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Re: Re: Briefly, for some more backstory.....
Anib, we are actually getting further off-topic here, the topic being Krishna and Arjuna. But I must not complain, as I am the one who started it. I am sorry, but I did not mean to attach the fallacy "you can do nothing wrong" to Hinduism. It is attached to the New Age ideas of God. I am convinced that the message "you can do nothing wrong" is from the dark side / Satan and his lackeys / predatory evil / enemies of goodness, for it takes us far away from God and his requirements for discerning right from wrong. This message is actually being spread to people in their most vulnerable moments, during a near death experience (NDE). I posted about the most flagrant episode of this, the NDE of Dr. Ebin Alexander. I did a book review of his astounding book. His book "Proof of Heaven" hit number one a couple of years ago, and he is now quite the celebrity in New Age circles, spouting this filth.
So I am very happy that you are arguing that Hinduism does not include this fallacy "you can do nothing wrong". It is an abomination to all that is good and righteous.
But this false message appeals and entices to most people, like the Sirens of Greek mythology calling sailors to their deaths on the rocks, for it preens their ego. It is a statement of what most people feel in their hearts. They cannot be wrong, they cannot be at fault, no, nooo, nooooo, everyone else is at fault and causing the conflicts.
This false message is but one example of the deception and lies that our cosmic superiors commit against us, and I am wary that Hinduism contains such things, but at least, it does not contain the false message "you can do nothing wrong".
I am familiar with Spinoza, who was born Jewish as well as Dutch. He was excommunicated by his Jewish community. Yes he did popularize Pantheism, but his terminology for it was "Nature". He equated God with "Nature". He was also a believer in Determinism, which takes free will away from everyone, including God, so Spinoza is also an enemy of Hinduism, as you point out. I am reluctant to say this, for I feel empathy and compassion for Spinoza, and agree with some of his points. He was a seeker of natural moral principles, as I am. Let us say that he was a pioneer in working out difficult spiritual topics in the West, and he had some success and some failure.
And now, to the core of Hinduism, that you address next in your comment, that being karma and reincarnation. You say "But the problem is that man never seems to learn from his past mistakes; he goes on repeating the same mistakes and keeps revolving in cycles of innumerable births." On this point, sadly, the New Agers agree wholeheartedly with Hinduism, and this is unacceptable to any person of intelligence and integrity. I have read New Age accounts of people who take several lives and thousands of years, to learn a simple moral lesson, whether it be not to steal, or not to covet, or not to abuse other people. This does not sound right to me. As a child, I learned these lessons in months or years, not multiple lifetimes.
So I ask you a very important question, WHY SHOULD it take most people thousands of years to learn a simple lesson, that a child can learn in months or years?? You consider this as normal and acceptable, but I do not. Instead, it is the result and the goal of the enemies and predators of humanity, and if you agree with them, you are enabling them to continue their horrific oppression of humanity.
posted by
GoldenMean
on July 4, 2017 at 2:50 AM
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GM and Aba
I am following your posts and comments on this toic, and find them to be very interesting. 
posted by
Sea_Gypsy
on July 3, 2017 at 10:08 PM
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Re: Briefly, for some more backstory.....
I read it with interest, "you can do nothing wrong", backed up as you call, with the Hindu theory of all-encompassing divinity. The philosophy that God is the all and that all things are God, is known as Pantheism, PAN in Greek means the all. Baruch Spinoza, was a early senenteenth century Dutch philosopher who popularised Pantheism. But the philosophy does not say "you can do nothing wrong", because by that theory the theory of Absolutism falls flat. Absolutism is about Evolution, only when the evolvement culminates,it is Absolute, not before. Man is still evolving, he cannot go from the earth unliberated, unless he has learnt every single life's lesson to the full. That is why rebirths take place. But the problem is that man never seems to learn from his past mistakes; he goes on repeating the same mistakes and keeps revolving in cycles of innumerable births. Someday, either by accident or his coming into contact with good men, or through unbearable pangs of sufferings, he learns that all this while whatever he was doing was nothing but wrong. Then begins the discovery of and journey into the spiritual. Another path opens up for him, that of evolving spiritually, ultimately merging with the Supreme. When spiritual awakening happens, he is not the same man he had been all this while in his cyclic births through ages. He sees God in everything, and in all manifestation, God. The whole gestalt of his vision undergoes a complete change. Only then, he stops doing wrongs, not earlier. Thank you with Cheers.
posted by
anib
on July 3, 2017 at 9:36 PM
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Re: Anib to GM
Your praise for me and my writings is in the same vein being reciprocated to you as I have come to understand you as one very intelligent, concerned and a sensitive person. My salute to you therefore. I think it is only ours where comments or replies turn almost into blog posts. But they are necessary in clarifications, at times. I flew to Amritsar, the place of the Punjab Golden Temple (the arrangements and the management is simply awe-inspiring with such huge crowds and the cleanliness is remarkable). I was at the Punjab university the day before for some official work and I showed a professor our ongoing discussions. He was hugely impressed and asked me to congratulate you for raising those queries which, he said and felt were his own. He then went on to commend me for tailor-making the write as per the requirement of the queries without foregoing the continuity and sequence of the verses. I am writing this because he being a prof. of Physics, never thought he will read the Gita, and that now he will. I'll be back to share with you an account of my understanding on the all-encompassing aspect, and people not committing wrongs. They do, and that is why they are limping so behind in terms of advanced births. They are yet to learn from their mistakes and wrong-doings. Cheers
posted by
anib
on July 2, 2017 at 9:56 PM
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Briefly, for some more backstory.....
I have been studying this issue of all-encompassing divinity, that everyone and everything is literally part of God. But I was studying it from another angle, the New Age angle, and I was becoming alarmed at its implications and effects upon people. For example, there is a New Age message, supposedly from God, that "you can do nothing wrong", since we are all part of God, how could we really do anything wrong? I almost fell out of my chair upon reading this. This statement itself "you can do nothing wrong" is very wrong, very damaging, and it does not come from a benevolent source. Of course we can do something wrong, we are doing things wrong all the time!!! And any professional or any skilled workman knows very acutely that he must take great care to NOT do something wrong in his work, or there will be serious consequences. Just last week, a building collapsed in England, and another building collapsed in China, I think. People died, and all the designers, engineers, builders, and even perhaps licensed workers involved with those buildings, are in serious trouble. As they should be.
I did not really know about the all-encompassing divinity of Hinduism until now, but it is alarming me, and I am trying to research and work out the details, with the little time I have to do so. So please, be patient, and we will get down the path, slower than I would like.
posted by
GoldenMean
on July 2, 2017 at 8:13 AM
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Anib
Your translations of the Bhagavad-Gita have impressed me and moved me greatly, more than anything else I have read recently on Blogit or elsewhere, so of course I must put aside everything else, and respond promptly to your blogs and comments. I even put aside my writings about Jesus in India, to deal with this epic work of yours. The subject of Jesus in India is another thread of thought, research, and discussion that is very important, but our paths seem to be merging here, on the battlefield with Lord Krishna and Arjuna, so that is where you and I are standing now, with two opposing armies at our front and back, and we are trying to reach some synthesis or understanding, to call the opposing armies to stand down, or to send them into headlong bloody battle against each other. I feel that level of tension here, but not between you and I. We are friends and allies, even though we have not seen or talked to each other in person, and that is an amazing miracle of modern technology, the internet, and whatever else may be involved.
The level of tension here is produced by our respective educations and cultures and religions, not by our own thoughts as individual souls. We both have strong commitments to our own societies. You were born in India and into the Hindu religion. I was born on the other side of the world, in Texas and into the Christian religion. But I hope that we can rise above these geographical and cultural differences. I hope that, between our actual true individual souls, that there is really no tension at all between us.
It seems that we have both gone much farther than our birth in this life, to ask God to grant us more knowledge and understanding. I actually pray for that almost every night, after a long day of struggle in this crazy world. I think that both of us can rise above our current life influences, to hold a higher standard, but alas, this is turning into a post instead of a response to a comment, and it is very late at night here, so I must sign off and try to get some sleep.......
posted by
GoldenMean
on July 1, 2017 at 11:07 PM
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Pls ignore typos, there are innumerable.
posted by
anib
on July 1, 2017 at 12:08 AM
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Humanity's, sorry.
posted by
anib
on July 1, 2017 at 12:03 AM
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My good friend and partner in writing, GM
Firstly, I am honoured that a fine writer like you should be giving a blog on a subject of our ongoing discussions on the Bhagavad-Gita. Secondly, that you write critically, openly and honestly on considerations of humanpity's good is an endearing quality about you. Your questions and concerns are genuine. Any discusion is incomplete unless it up is critically explored from all angles. Let's start ...
Except for Hindu scriptures, all other religious teachings have 'Commandments'. The stand of the former is greater, more free and encompassing. All it says is 'thus I have spoker, now if you like, choose, or if you don't, good enough'. Krishna,too, does not force any decision on Arjuna. He himself never claims I am the highest God. Thus, your question of hierarchy of our cosmic superiors who, intentionally, for their own good, make humans do their wants, I feel, does not stand firm ground. The 'shock therapy' you say is done with good intentions but should not have been done, is paradoxical. Manipulator, he was all right and for the right causes ... countless innocent lives and the society's survival was at stake. And, all said and done, Krishna is the most colourful and lovable personality in the entire history of all religions. Don't take my words as of a votary of Hindu religious fanatic. I try to see the good in all religious thoughts, and the nuggets of wisdom are to be gleaned from wherever they come from. You have suggested the idea, 'so as to influence Arjuna quickly', which again, is a digress and redundant because as we already didcussed why the Time-lag wasn't there, the sense 'quickly' does not arise at all. All we have concluded until now is the first two chapters. There are sixteen of them more in the same vein, the modes of their profundity intact, but changing alternately to keep readers interest in hold.
One last thing, because there are many issues/doubts (of Arjuna) to be resolved, all of which, you'll see them dismantled one after another, and that's where we become Arjunas ourselves. The letter 'Kri' in Sanskrit is derived from akarshan, or attraction, gravitational. The attraction of Krishna, people gravitating towards him is natural.
I am waiting in restive anticipation of what you have said are going to post. I firmly believe the PROCESS should continue. Cheers
Alternatively, I will not press on the persona of Krishna, but as Nature's Energy Speak, so that only the scientific viewpoint of Power remains, with gods and goddesses eliminated. Cheers again 
posted by
anib
on July 1, 2017 at 12:02 AM
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