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Anib

Thanks for the elaborations!  I understand,  all except the issue of time or time-lag.  Apparently,  you mean that the enemy did not have time to attack during this amazing discussion,  which happened much quicker than it seems.  That is as good an explanation as any.  I await the next development with pleasant anticipation.  Cheers  

posted by GoldenMean on June 18, 2017 at 5:18 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Anib to GoldenMean

The beauty of the Gita is that it raises conflicts, controversies, and paradoxes and then resolve them all into a harmony. That is the scripture's usp. The instruction is given in the midst of a battlefield, where life and death is from moment to moment uncertain. The eldest of the Pandava brothers is Yudhishtira, a Sanskrit word meaning one who is composed in the highest of crises. Being the son of Yama, God of death, he knows all about the mysteries of life and does not therefore, fear death. 

The most important query: Was the opposing army standing still when Arjuna is being given the instructions, why did they, deceitful as they were, not make good of a capital in killing Arjuna? Arjuna, in his catatonic depressive state, is too bewildered and confused to decide between right and wrong. Carl Jung has said that in such a state a man is devoured by evil, that's how the phrase, 'an empty mind is a devil's workshop', derives its sense in the English saying. It is not true. When the mind is empty only then is it mouldable. This is the basis of all hypnotic therapy. Precisely that is why Krishns smiles, the treament can begin. To answer the question of time lag: in such vegetstive state, a man although outwardly reactionless, is intensely receptive to his object of seeking; answers, solutions. Here communication is no longer necessary which involves a certain time-frame; it becomes communion, coming to a union, where thought energy can be directly transferred in a matter of few moments. So, the time lag which is linear, is not there at all. Now, to why the apparent time-lag? What dialogue Krishna and Arjuna had, was heard by no other than Dhritarashtra, narrated by Sanjaya, the charioteer, being invested with Divya Drushti, Divone Sight, by Rishi Veda Vyasa. In other words we, as listeners, take place of Dhritarashtra. Time is only when we are conscious, in a dream or deep sleep, time ceases to exist. We do not know whether we are man or a woman, whether we are rich or poor or happy or sad. Consider this from Arjuna's viewpoint and everything then becomes clear. The narration is time-bound, not the thought energy, which can be transferred instantaneously. In communion all communication is superfluous. 

The last Q on Soul: The Soul is (imagine it to be) Energy by which we lead our lives. There are deaths, a temporary stoppage but the current, though not seen, is there, flowing always. Suppose you have a hundred bulbs in a series, one bulb fuses, bring on another and fix it and it will light; so is with the soul which is never born thus never dying, too. It is immanent energy. A body sans soul is a corpse and a soul sans body is a ghost. Life, like current, is ever there ... the same principle (without any personification, without any name). Further discussions are in the offing. Cheers

posted by anibanerjee on June 18, 2017 at 3:15 AM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Aba, Brother and Teacher

Thank you, and i am beginning to get it! :) Beautifully and poetrically explained. 

posted by RPresta on June 17, 2017 at 11:03 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Re: Aba, Brother and Teacher

Don't give a thought to the typos; I have the same problem, only worse! LOL! The predictor put all sorts of nonsense in there, at times, embarrassing.

posted by RPresta on June 17, 2017 at 11:01 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Aba, Brother and Teacher
Oh the grammatical typing from my mobile.

posted by anibanerjee on June 17, 2017 at 10:41 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Aba, Brother and Teacher
Krishna is variously referred to and so is Arjuna. When Krishna is called Hrishikesha, it alluded to his being seated at the hearts of all beings, being good and bad and so he knows all that is in one's heart. He is here supesoul and all other hearts are his fragments divisions. Like the sun being one, reflected in a thousand puddles in water after it has rained.Madhsudana is Krishna as the slaye of the demon Madhu. When Arjuna is called Parantapa,the meaning is torturer of enemies,his real quality but now as Arjuna is one who shirks from his appointed duty of a warrior. These are all adjectival references in line with the deeper sense of the function of the hour, as reminders of their essentoal selves. Hope it is somewhat clearer to my dear big Sister.

posted by anibanerjee on June 17, 2017 at 10:39 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Re:
Kasoor mera nahin waqt hi bahut dheere chal raha tha....

posted by shamasehar on June 17, 2017 at 10:29 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re:
Iska ghum hai ki bahut der me barbad kiya

posted by anibanerjee on June 17, 2017 at 10:10 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re:
Iska ghum hai ki bahut der me barbad kiya

posted by anibanerjee on June 17, 2017 at 10:10 PM | link to this | reply

Re:

Iska ghum hai no bahut der me bar Baat kiya. I agree the hows and whys of things are most educator when you come to think of it.

posted by anibanerjee on June 17, 2017 at 10:07 PM | link to this | reply

Re: CCT
Thank you,Sir. I will further elaborate on this, the answer that way would be more detailed and satisfying, I hope.

posted by anibanerjee on June 17, 2017 at 10:03 PM | link to this | reply

Re: CCT
Thank you,Sir. I will further elaborate on this, the answer that way would be more detailed and satisfying, I hope.

posted by anibanerjee on June 17, 2017 at 10:03 PM | link to this | reply

Vaise toh tumhe ne mujhe barbad kiya hai, ilzam kisi aur ke ser jaye toh achcha..... interpretations​ of how and why of events and behaviour can be so interesting....

posted by shamasehar on June 17, 2017 at 9:07 PM | link to this | reply

Arjuna would be perfectly excused for not assimilating the theoretical Advice, I would imagine. I suppose it depends if one believes in souls. Interesting twists in morals.Well done Abba.

posted by C_C_T on June 17, 2017 at 10:41 AM | link to this | reply

Re: RASSE
Oh I am so sorry to learn that.But that it brings some succour to you makes my endeavour bring some solace to me too. I extend you a warm welcome.

posted by anibanerjee on June 16, 2017 at 8:51 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Kabu
Your liking them makes for a good basis for my designing the write in a manner which has an appeal for the Western minds' understanding, and so does Presta's.

posted by anibanerjee on June 16, 2017 at 8:45 PM | link to this | reply

Re: GoldenMean
Your questions are delightful and I knew it would be coming from you. I'm on way to Delhi from Begaluru and will attempt an answer by tonight.Very pertinent queries indeed. Your reading between the lines is incisive which makes the discussions so meaningful.Thank you so very much.

posted by anibanerjee on June 16, 2017 at 8:38 PM | link to this | reply

However,  one message from Krishna is quite strange:  Arjuna, go ahead and fight and kill,  because you are not really killing anybody,  because you cannot kill the soul. 

I would say that killing someone in the flesh is ALWAYS a big deal,  an act of serious consequence,  whether justified or not,  that invokes karma for the killer and the killee.  It is not to be taken lightly.  And we have no idea how difficult it is for a soul to be re-born,  but I have read that it can be quite difficult,  indeed.   

posted by GoldenMean on June 16, 2017 at 7:33 PM | link to this | reply

Wow, oh my friend this is epic and I need more tutorials to be able to get more from this so I will need to read it a couple more times. It is amazing. It is such a mixture of psychiatry and emotions and God because doesn't really matter what we call God God is.

posted by Kabu on June 16, 2017 at 4:22 PM | link to this | reply

Anib

I am intrigued by religious history,  and have studied much of it.  So, this is the first time that Krishna revealed the details of reincarnation to the people of India?  Fascinating that he chose to do so on a battlefield,  in the MIDDLE of a battlefield,  out in the open between the opposing armies! 

But it is somehow appropriate,  because a lot of people are about to die,  and so are worried about their fate.  I am reminded of General George Patton,  in WW2,  who had a strong vision at Carthage,  that he had fought and died there before.  

From a military perspective,  it is odd that the opposing army did not attack at this time,  when Arjuna was in catatonic depression,  would not fight,   and likely would have just let them kill him.  This was no secret to the enemy king,  for his charioteer Sanjaya was being given divine vision of the debate between Arjuna and Krishna.  What priceless intelligence on the battlefield!!!  If I were the enemy king,  I would have said  "now is the time to strike.....  go forth and kill Arjuna!!"  On the other hand,  Arjuna had Krishna (God) in his chariot and on his side.  But still,  the enemy had already tried to arrest and jail Krishna,  so they apparently did not regard him as an invincible god.

And that god is now trying to get a reluctant warrior,  Arjuna,  to get back to his moral duty,  to kill the enemy,  who happens to be his 'dear' relatives,  but are scoudrels and villians,  who attacked and betrayed Arjuna and his brothers,  and are likely oppressive tyrants over their people.

So this story is full of paradoxes,  with conflicting points and counterpoints abounding.  This is the odd and pregnant lull before the horrible storm of the battle.  I await the next development with great interest. 

posted by GoldenMean on June 16, 2017 at 3:27 AM | link to this | reply

Aba, Brother and Teacher

And, like Arjuna, I may be too absorbed to be speaking out! At least, not too intelligently this night/morning! LOL. There is much here to ponder and I should like to comment further later. It's amazing, some of the parallels to Christianity in places, and some differences. You have done such a fine job here. I must revisit and comment further. Such an excellent post and a difficult job well done. Kudos many times over. Aba deD brother, as it becomes more clear with each reading. Why do Krishna and others have name changes? :) s. 

posted by RPresta on June 16, 2017 at 12:36 AM | link to this | reply

Having just lost my father, I find this very intriguing and comforting.  Thank you.

posted by RASSE on June 16, 2017 at 12:36 AM | link to this | reply

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