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Also, we should ask ourselves....

..... why do most people in the West just ignore the long history of crimes of the Muslim culture,  and condemn our own Western culture?  The crimes of Islam are much greater,  for a much longer period.  That would be CONTINUOUS AND ON-GOING,  since about 640 AD..... that is over 1300 YEARS.....  America is only 240 years old.  We have brought much freedom and goodness to the world,  yet we are condemned as the world's greatest  "oppressor".  Whatever the twisted reasoning,  such as given below,  this is just insanity,  if the much greater crimes of Islam,  towards their fellow Muslims as well as infidels,  are not condemned first. 

posted by GoldenMean on August 10, 2016 at 9:00 AM | link to this | reply

Let us go back far enough.....

Katray,  your points about the inhuman acts and mistakes of Western countries and Western religions are of course valid,  and must be considered.  But if we are examining the past,  let us go back far enough to REALLY get all the pertinent facts.  The warring / dominating policies of Islam have been its most important feature since the violent life of its murderous founder,  Mohammed (or ol' Mo as Nautikos calls him).  Islam started in Arabia,  but quickly spread to take over the birthplaces of Judaism and Christianity,  and moved on like a wildfire into Asia, Africa, and Europe.  They have never stopped,  except when military force stopped them.  So who is the real aggressor / invader,  in the big picture?  I will let this video give my answer.  I have presented it before,  but most of you probably did not look at it.  You really should.  It addresses the Christian crusades also,  which were not nearly the awful "invasion" that we have been told.......

 

posted by GoldenMean on August 9, 2016 at 2:16 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: Re: So many issues here.....

Thank you, Naut, but I am not the one who compares Islam to Christianity as GM did here and you have also done in other posts. So my points about other religions and their inhumane, horrific histories are very much on point with what the subjects raised. Those numbers may be increasing in response because of the actions of the West: Iraq shredded, then upheaval in Egypt, Libya, Syria. Failed states, cities bombed out, rising death tolls with many young innocents killed, mass fleeing of the citizenry - none of these brutal realities have anything to do with ISLAM and everything to do with the manipulation of opportunistic and inhumane actors - their recruiting efforts are unwittingly made easier by the West. I stand by my statement and everything else about this topic that I know to be true so I guess we will have to follow the old adage of "agree to disagree." Because it seems the good folks of Blogit are weary of the back and forth between us. I can respect that and do my own thing here.

posted by Katray2 on August 9, 2016 at 1:18 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Re: So many issues here.....

Katray, you're raising many interesting topics, but you forgot one thing - the kitchen sink! And just in case you don't get my point - this is about the TEACHINGS OF ISLAM and the fact that Muslims are following those teachings to the letter in increasing numbers! I know you want to believe that 'ISIS is an evil and insanely twisted cult' - but you are wrong. Study Islam, all of it... 

posted by Nautikos on August 9, 2016 at 10:13 AM | link to this | reply

Oh! dear Naut I put my comment on your previous blog,I mistook the  end of this blog. 

posted by C_C_T on August 9, 2016 at 8:33 AM | link to this | reply

Re: So many issues here.....

It is about perspective too, GM. To Palestinians who have lost innocent loved ones because of Israeli acts, or Native Americans who were terrorized by Europeans and Christianity and who fought back to the point of genocide against them, to the Africans kidnapped, torn from family, enslaved and oppressed into modern times by Christian America, the candles of mindless slaughter, greed driven land grabs, shock and awe destruction burns very brightly high and un-forgotten.. ISIS came into being because of the pointless U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq; do some research on your own and discover the truth. ISIS is an evil and insanely twisted cult; the fruits of war for the masses are rotten and horrific indeed but that does not, should not define Islam anymore than Israeli atrocities should define Judaism or the inhumane, deadly deeds noted above should define Christianity. The past is never truly past when knowledge has not been absorbed and thusly allowed to heal the wounds humanity inflicts on itself.

posted by Katray2 on August 9, 2016 at 6:30 AM | link to this | reply

Nautikos

I just stopped by to read and say hi. 

posted by Sea_Gypsy on August 9, 2016 at 12:05 AM | link to this | reply

I would rather know than not know, so find your posts informative. Not only that but they encourage me to search for more about the subject in other writings, be it the news, books, blogs or documentaries. Because I want to KNOW, I read articles on both sides of the fence - pro and anti Islam.The comments on this post are very interesting  - and encouraging. It shows that we can agree to disagree and not get carried away. We're still smiling.

posted by adnohr on August 9, 2016 at 12:03 AM | link to this | reply

What a read this post is, and all of the comments section.  I do believe what Golden Mean says that peaceful muslims are peaceful because they choose to be.  I also have known peaceful muslims who now and then would forget their peacefulness and become quite loud and argumentative with not very peaceful countenances at all when certain subjects came up.  A peaceful muslim is not guaranteed to always remain peaceful, nor is any other person.  Those who have claimed to be Christians have not always kept their Christian values.  It is a crazy world and getting crazier all the time.  It is a good thing to study and be aware of possibilities of things worsening and at the same time to share God's love and the peace that Jesus left with us--His peace.

posted by TAPS. on August 8, 2016 at 9:50 PM | link to this | reply

So many issues here.....

..... but the main point I want to make is that every religious believer of every variety is a SELECTIVE BELIEVER,  myself included.  We read the scriptures of our religion,  we listen to the preachers,  and we pick and choose what we will follow.  That is why most Muslims are peaceful,  because they choose to be. 

What Nautikos and I are trying to point out and provide proof of,  I think,  is that the Muslim scriptures guide Muslims toward jihad,  killing,  slavery,  takeover of the government,  etc.  etc.  The Muslim scriptures are the perfect guide for world domination and also domination of your neighbors!  The peaceful Muslims have to GO AGAINST their own scriptures to be peaceful!!  This is not the case with Christianity,  especially not with the New Testament.   We are told to get along with our neighbors,  not dominate them,  and to respect state authority,  separate from religion. 

The ISIS convert was a Baptist,  as I am a Baptist.  His big beef with Christians is that we do not follow the first two of the Ten Commandments "“Thou shalt have no other gods before me” and “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image”.  OMG,  how horrible we are.  For not following these commandments the way that Muslims do,  we are to be killed.

Come on people,  this is absurd and evil.  Whatever Katray can point to,  for the sins of the Christians or the Israelis against the Palestinians,  cannot hold a candle to the evil of ISIS,  or the common evil being committed daily in all of the Muslim countries against their own women,  Jews,  Christians, Buddhists,  Ba'hai,  etc.  In the vast majority of Muslim countries,  a new Christian church cannot even be built,  because the Koran says so.  Yet they come to our countries and build new mosques all over the place.  Is this fair,  equitable,  or in the interests of peace?  NO,  OF COURSE NOT.

Christians are taught to tell the truth at all times.  Muslims are taught, straight from the Koran,  that they can lie all they want to non-Muslims. 

All this is to say,  the Muslims teachings are vastly different,  and darker,  than the teachings of any other major religion in the world.  Nautikos is right to keep pointing this out,  and I am quite enjoying his educational posts about Islam.  His ability to find current news items is amazing,  and I agree with everything he is trying to teach us about Islam.

We are all selective believers,  like picking out food on a menu,  but the Muslims' menu has a lot more dishes of world domination,  sexual abuse,  killing,  slavery,  and lying to pick from.  Islam is NOT on an equal basis with the other religions. 

 

posted by GoldenMean on August 8, 2016 at 7:14 PM | link to this | reply

posted by Katray2 on August 8, 2016 at 6:19 PM | link to this | reply

I don't see where anybody here on Blogit is defending terrorism. Looking at the whole picture and trying to understand what it means is necessary to the ideal of ending the violence and appreciating life. okay, no more from me on this!

posted by Katray2 on August 8, 2016 at 6:18 PM | link to this | reply

The message is very clear about what he desires. And there are many others who feel the way that he does.

posted by FormerStudentIntern on August 8, 2016 at 6:00 PM | link to this | reply

Nautikos

I have studied somewhat for several years the religion of Islam. It is not a religion of peace and will bring about much pain all over the world. People are up in arms and are killing policemen to inflate their unmerrited measure of poor treatment. That is the same kind of talk to the other degree about muslims. How can one not see the truth? Of course I rely a lot on the Bible to finish off my study of Islam. I do not understand people defending people who do as the truck driver did in Nice France.

posted by Justi on August 8, 2016 at 3:47 PM | link to this | reply

Naut Dear

Don't turn this all into a fight between all of us here on Blogit. There is enough of that in the World. We all respect that you are entitled to your views but yes I told you recently that your writing and your insertions from others are biased against Muslim people. You dismiss the fact that Muslims rebells are killing more Muslims than they are killing Westerners. That millions of people are displaced Muslims by Muslims. That in Indonesia the largest Muslim group in the World, they discipline terrorists by firing squad.

posted by Kabu on August 8, 2016 at 2:46 PM | link to this | reply

Nutikos

I agree with PatB Naut, I can't read anymore of Islam and it's beneath you to speak of Katray the Pope or Obama as you do.I m your friend however

posted by WileyJohn on August 8, 2016 at 2:25 PM | link to this | reply

Naut, I much prefer it when you write about science or your doggie or

some other esoteric subject you have studied and thought about. The long treatises on Islam seem to have outlived my interest in the topic. Sorry.

posted by Pat_B on August 8, 2016 at 2:13 PM | link to this | reply

First of all, you did not post the entirety of my sentence..

quoting myself with bold face added: "because I really want to understand why the Muslims I know in person and those I have discussed issues with on-line..."

I'm sitting here alive now, in the comfort of my home because my pulmonologist, who is a practicing Muslim, was the only doctor caring for me who didn't think I was dying after I collapsed not breathing, then intubated by Emts and in Icu in late 2013-14. My case was declared hopeless by a team of medical professionals after one week and my family was devastated but Dr. A. never gave up and worked diligently for weeks to wean me off life support. I did, obviously, recover and walked out of that hospital. Dr. A. clued my family in on the cold, hard realities of private insurance coverage. Anyway, he is still my doctor, helping me through the maze of the lung transplant process and he and his family became family friends. Also my brother works with and is friends with several Muslims at his workplace and I socialize with them too. So perhaps you think I'm emotional or biased because of my doctor but I would remind you that I have been against the narrow and pointless, in my opinion, blaming of the religion of Islam for terrorism years before I fell deathly ill - proof is in my blogs.

Secondly, far right wing Zionists who are Jewish in the Israeli government and military are not what I would consider sane or peaceful in their treatment of the Palestinians - this is how the situation is viewed by multitudes of folks more knowledgeable and in-the-know than myself.

Thirdly, I have a problem with Robert Spencer as a fair and balanced source on Islam; I will elaborate further on that point in a day or two in my blog.

 

 

 

posted by Katray2 on August 8, 2016 at 2:11 PM | link to this | reply