Comments on The Verse of The Sword

Go to The Golden ViewAdd a commentGo to The Verse of The Sword

Still having fun

Nautikos-- You say that non-Muslim historians doubt the existence of Mohammed. I must point out that the Hindu scholar I quoted in this post studied Momammed extensively, thought he was real, and thought he was extremely evil. I saw other non-Muslim scholars writing similarly.  Wikipedia gives no mention of doubts of Mohammed's existence, though one researcher thought Mo was schizophrenic. 

The Hindu scholar went to the great trouble to give us timeline of Mohammed' crimes, followed by Mohammed's claims to receive a revelation justifying that particular type of crime.  This tends to accuse Mohammed of making up his own revelations. That is entirely possible. But I am saying that Mohammed's original revelation, supposedly from the angel Gabriel, in the mountain cave, was from a predatory spirit not associated with the God of Abraham at all. Most religions acknowledge a predatory Satan-like opponent of God, and Mohammed's doctrines have the predatory earmarks (convert, enslave or kill). So yes,  I am saying that Islam is a religion from the devil, quite literally.

posted by GoldenMean on December 8, 2015 at 4:30 PM | link to this | reply

Re: Now we are having some fun

Well, well, well...It looks like we do have a lot in common, LOL...You see, I'm a bit of an 'amateur physicist', and have occasionally posted brief 'physics lectures' here, with mixed results, LOL...I'm pretty familiar with the 'Standard Model' of Quantum Theory, and some of its msteries (e.g. the two slit experiment and, even crazier, the instant connection of two intermingled particles over distances 'prohibited' by classical physics, since it simply disregards c!) But here is my main point: of course science cannot say anything about the 'whatness' of phenomena - it can only speak of the 'how'...For me, the world is a deeply mysterious thing, ultimately unfathomable. But I have no problem with those who want to use a divinity of some sort as an explanation, an 'ultimate cause', a 'prime mover', as long as that divinity does not take on the form it has in Islam... 

posted by Nautikos on December 8, 2015 at 7:54 AM | link to this | reply

Now we are having some fun

Wiley--  thanks for reading!

Nautikos-- divine relevations, or important communications from spiritual beings, are entirely possible. Just imagine, for the sake of argument, that intelligent life can exist without bodies. Consider it a hypothesis. If so, it is logical that this type of life has existed for billions of years, far longer than the human race. It is also feasible that this type of ancient life would wish to maintain some sort of relationship with us, whether helpful or predatory. Some entities may wish to help us evolve, while other entities may wish to dominate us and exploit us. What better way to do this than religions, in either direction? 

Then there is the Holy Church of the Electron, of which we are all members, including you. Electrons are blazing back and forth between us, allowing us to communicate here. Yet no scientist has ever seen an electron, and probably never will. They can only observe the EFFECTS of electrons, so they can only postulate the existence of electrons. Yet electrons are essential to the biological processes of life, and we have built our modern civilization upon them. 

Even more incredible, no scientist knows what causes electrons to continue in their perpetual movement, orbiting atoms and skipping along chains of atoms to bring us light. Why do the electrons never slow down?  Why do electrons move at all? What fantastic force is propelling electrons in their insanely fast orbits? What fortunate quirk of energy makes electrons flow, jumping from one atom to another, to power our bodies and televisions and computers??  We do not know.  Then we can get into quantum physics, where one thing can exist in at least two different place at the same time. Science is just getting started investigating these mysteries.

You, Nautikos, have never seen an electron, and you will never see one. Yet you believe that they exist, I presume, and you believe the scientists who tell us they exist. 

My conclusion:  The unobservable electron is similar to the unobservable life energy within us, and in the older, greater non-physical entities that likely exist.  We cannot see the entities, but we see the EFFECTS of those entities, such as in religion. 

posted by GoldenMean on December 7, 2015 at 8:54 PM | link to this | reply

Golden Mean

Wiley was reading here

posted by WileyJohn on December 7, 2015 at 5:55 PM | link to this | reply

GM

I've got a well-thumbed and coffee-stained copy of the Koran on my desk (the Dawood translation), reams of the Hadith, and shelves of related stuff...I have in the past posted some of the more virulent verses, and they never made much of an impact, LOL, but it's good that you're doing it again ...

You mentioned ol' Mo's 'revelations' in one of your comments, and I may as well lay out my position...a) There's no such thing and has never been anything like 'divine revelation' - the phenomenon of 'experiencing' revelations is easily explained by psychology, experiences the ancients attributed to the supernatural, the 'divine.' b) Real historians, i.e. non-Islamic ones, regard Mo's very existence as highly doubtful. He is probably a 'construct', at whose core may well have been someone like him. c) The Koran didn't appear until about 75-80 years after Mo's (alleged) death in 632, and there is absolutely no doubt among serious (Western) scholars that there are a number of authors involved, possibly as many as eight. And verses were often fiddled with to serve someone's political purposes of the moment. d) All serious scholars also agree that there is a lot of stuff in the Koran that comes straight from Zoroastrian, Judaic and Christian sources... 

I mention all of that only so that you can understand 'where I am coming from', LOL...

posted by Nautikos on December 7, 2015 at 5:14 PM | link to this | reply

TAPS

Thanks for your comment. It is very significant, and it conveys your wisdom. You are not commenting on this post, but on my larger philosophical position. I would ask you to reconsider. You have an admirable passion of faith, the Christian faith, which serves you very well.  I share that faith.  But it can be an extreme, whether you realize it or not.  The middle ground takes lessons from all extremes,  and forges them into new understanding.  I hope you will understand this. 

posted by GoldenMean on December 7, 2015 at 3:31 AM | link to this | reply

I've never much found the middle ground to be satisfying.  It is a fallacy that states that the "middle ground" is always correct.

posted by TAPS. on December 7, 2015 at 12:57 AM | link to this | reply