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Re: Re: agree or disagree both are great
I totally agree that when the discussion is not beneficial and is actually harmfull, than stop talking or end the talk, But its very important to just bring forth facts as we see them, and events as they are happening, opinions are always nice since some people have more insight than others into cultures and ways of thinking, but information is most important. Me and you and all well meaning people are in the same boat, in the same planet and under one roof that we would like to keep as safe as possible and live in harmoney, that is the goal and the objective for us all. Thank you for responding and keeping the flame going. not all muslims are terrorists, unfortuantly all terrorists are muslim - so yes the muslim community does not stand up to them, and you cant blame them so much as beg them to please do something becuase the terrorists have no problem killing muslims who stand up against them, as a matter of fact they would be quicker to kill their own.
posted by
Tzippy
on December 21, 2009 at 10:29 AM
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Re: agree or disagree both are great
Tzippy, thanks for commenting on this post. It is only too true that terrorism is hanging over our heads, and we cannot stick our heads in the sand.
Being a Muslim is not the same as being a terrorist.
Perhaps we should ask ourselves, why moderate Muslims are backwards in coming forwards with regard to criticism of terrorist elements in their midst?
Part of the answer perhaps is because they feel that we are tarring them all with the same brush; collective condemnation.
IMO If we want to understand each other better, we should start by asking each other questions, instead of making assertions. We should be better at finding out what we have in common, instead of what we do not have in common.
It seems to me that some people on this site think that all I want to do is to stick my head in the sand. This is a misconception. On the contrary by taking an active part in this discussion, I'm facing it head on. However sometimes it's a good idea to call for time out, especially when the discussion gets personal.
posted by
elinjo
on December 21, 2009 at 7:23 AM
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agree or disagree both are great
i respect you for posting a response to nautikos, I am thrilled that it is discussed,although I do not like it when it goes down to the level of name calling and insults, but I do not want that to be responsible for the discussion to stop. Please continue posting your opinion and research and facts and all else. Terrorism is hanging over our head,lets not ignore what we must discuss for fear of offending someone. My ex is a muslim, I am not, but of course there are good and bad in every culture religion and race, that is not the issue at hand. The jews stuck their head in the sand as hitler made it illegal to be a jew, that got them tortured and killed, please help the world by not sticking your head in the sand, we need you.
posted by
Tzippy
on December 21, 2009 at 6:27 AM
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I once was invited to a birthday party by a person who was ministering to some Iraqi refugees living in Tucson,AZ. Many Christian churches there are helping the refugees, most being Muslin. They try to minister, by showing God's love, and being friends. I was very impressed by the love these Muslins showed me, accepted me into their home. Many are hostile towards them because they are Muslin. It made me wonder if the "violent muslins" are the minority? Just an observation.
posted by
mariposa75
on December 20, 2009 at 5:11 PM
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Hi Elinjo
Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. We can agree on many points, and let us simply agree to disagree on others...
I am a bit surprised at some of the other comments, though, which show a profound lack of understanding, both of the problem and of my position, especially of my position...
posted by
Nautikos
on December 19, 2009 at 5:52 PM
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Thanks for sharing the link to the Charter for Compassion Elinjo.
I'm affirmed(signed on) and truly believe in compassion for all mankind regardless. Understanding is so important. I do ponder.... & I wonder if I'd feel the same way had I lost a loved one through a violent act. I hope and pray I'd feel the same...that compassion works. I have not fully read the Bible or the Koran. But the bits and pieces I have read from each, lead me to believe the goal is similiar. Love and God are universal.
posted by
yellowrose55
on December 19, 2009 at 5:29 PM
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Re: ash pradhan
Thank you for your very kind comment. I read John Wiley's apology to Chuck, a couple of hours after he wrote it. Normally I leave either a comment or a card, on this occasion I didn't. After reading your comment to this post I went back and re-read the apology and saw that Chuck had accepted it very graciously as well as apologising for any discourtesy to Kabu.After which John Wiley also responded amicably. So they are now reconciled. I read your comments too and would like to express my admiration for your diplomatic skills.
posted by
elinjo
on December 19, 2009 at 4:24 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Petition sam444
IMO After the meagre results of COP15 we should start thinking alternatively. Totally and utterly depressing business! Thanks for commenting. I agree with you we should all plant more trees, use public transport (when and where we can, I know it can be difficult in your part of the world) and think before we consume.
posted by
elinjo
on December 19, 2009 at 3:58 AM
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Re:FormerStudentIntern
Yes, I agree with you. That's why I think we should try and bridge-build.
posted by
elinjo
on December 19, 2009 at 3:49 AM
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Re: Justi
Thank you for your interesting comment and your apology, although the latter is not really necessary.
You base your arguments on your literal belief in the bible. Although I respect your right to believe this, I do not share your opinion. Islam and Christianity are both missionary faiths; Judaism incidentally is not. In all three religions there are sincere people who interpret the holy texts literally and for this reason are very upset when other equally sincere people choose to interpret them differently or completely disregard them.
Taken in chronological order; Judaism, Christianity and Islam are in the same family, even though there are theological differences. Sad isn't it that the most bitter quarrels occur in families?
posted by
elinjo
on December 19, 2009 at 3:46 AM
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elinjo
Is your comment to my comment about the Koran different that wanting moderates to speak out? Should I be afraid? Many people quote the Bible, many study it under secular terms. If you know it and know when it was written and to whom, for whom and how you would really understand exactly what and why I said that. I fully believe that based on not just normal, Protestant theology but on the totality of the Bible. Even the names are changed, on and on just as the Bible has described the past, present and future of the work of Satan. Now what can the moderate say if they don't believe as the radicals? Apparently nothing! I know what I am talking about, I am risking talking about it. Not to rile the Muslims, but to hope the Christians will not become so incompetent in their own faith as to convert. All of what is happening right now is in the pages of the Bible. I apologize to you if I have offended you or any of your readers. Still I stand by what I say because I cannot see how devout Christians who are following the whole Bible can object to this.
posted by
Justi
on December 18, 2009 at 8:37 PM
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I do feel that many of us are more alike than different. Unfortunately it's a proportional few that are really getting in the way.
posted by
FormerStudentIntern
on December 18, 2009 at 7:35 PM
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Betty, you impress me...
with your global perspective on issues, your ability to clearly & civilly express those in fine English, your sensitivity to people in not being judgmental, yet your guts in not taking any "crap", especially when directed to the defenseless...I could go on. Just like Sam444 and Elysianfields, you are a gift indeed both to this site and to the world, write on.
I'd also like to politely point out that John Wiley, after posting those comments that granted were at that time offensive to many of us, has since profusely & genuinely apologized, both personally to Chuck, and to us all, despite continued hostility by some. When you have some time, please read John's recent posts, and you'll see what I mean. To me, this was a strange way that God got two perfectly compassionate gentlemen, John & Chuck, of different faiths and upbringing to come together, make peace, and become friends. Beyond expressing my surprise and gratitude, I have no other explanation for that.
Finally, I do firmly believe that, although awkward silence is not the answer, one-sided, overgeneralized, at times even ignorant, accusations is not the way to seek reconciliation, no matter what the media of communication is, nor who the communicator is.
posted by
ash_pradhan
on December 18, 2009 at 7:09 PM
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posted by
magic_moon
on December 18, 2009 at 4:24 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Petition sam444
How about if they plant a few trees, stop promoting automobile-based development and keep their companies within their borders? And, yes, I realize the US is one of the worst offenders on all three accounts, a fact at which I have been long disgusted.
Bottom line is that we should be reducing the NET carbon dioxide contributions, not engaging in megalomaniac dreams of reducing the GROSS carbon dioxide emissions by big government micro-managing the affairs of the little guy. That the world's "leaders" are pursuing the latter agenda disgusts me even more.
Carl Peter Klapper
Popular Capitalist
posted by
cpklapper
on December 18, 2009 at 2:57 PM
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Re: Taps
Thanks, Taps!
posted by
elinjo
on December 18, 2009 at 9:55 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Petition sam444
I've been glued to the television most of the afternoon in hope of seeing a break-through in negotiations! First optimism, then pessimism and then optimism again and so on. At one point the UN suggested that world leaders stay put in Copenhagen until tomorrow, but they seem to have dropped that idea.
posted by
elinjo
on December 18, 2009 at 9:54 AM
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Re: Re: sam444
Poor children, all good things must come to an end! I knew of this tradition and when my brother and his family came to live with me, he had decided to end his drug addiction, (they had been impoverished for six years), I delighted in giving them gifts prior to Christmas, and they loved it, but kept the Christmas tradition for the opening of the morning. It make them feel good that they were thought of each day. So important when both parents are recovering. I borrowed from one faith and enlightened one's in another. For me that it what is all about. I admire you and Naut and it was difficult but I had trouble commenting, it goes against what I had to fight through to become who I am. Thank you for your kind comment and taking the time to read such a long poem. It couldn't be expressed in fewer words. We love the same God, Amen! Shelly
I have received two email already with updates on the petition's impact. Still fearful but hopeful!
posted by
sam444
on December 18, 2009 at 9:35 AM
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My brief comment:
You make me feel good.
posted by
TAPS.
on December 18, 2009 at 9:33 AM
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Re: elysinfields
Thanks Elyse for your very kind comment. The same to you
.
posted by
elinjo
on December 18, 2009 at 9:10 AM
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Re: Lustorlove
Yes, that's a safe topic anyway.
posted by
elinjo
on December 18, 2009 at 9:08 AM
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Re: sam444
I can well understand that you are tired of this 'debate.' Thank you for coming back anyway and writing your supportive comment. Indeed you are one of the people who are genuinely supportive and tolerant of a wide range of opinions. Thank you for Hanukkah greetings! It's the last evening, so the children will suffer from gift-withdrawal symptoms tomorrow.
posted by
elinjo
on December 18, 2009 at 9:07 AM
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Re: wileyJohn
Thank you for the correction.
posted by
elinjo
on December 18, 2009 at 9:00 AM
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I dont like to talke politics or relegion so I will stay out of this, but I like it best when you talk about your family and grandchildren, just my opinion
posted by
Lanetay
on December 18, 2009 at 7:29 AM
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Elinjo you bless my soul with your persistent and tenacious desire to bring about understanding - you are Loved and respected ~ Elyse
posted by
elysianfields
on December 18, 2009 at 7:15 AM
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Elinjo
I wrote this;
If you consider that Islam appeared about six hundred years after Jesus was on earth it's obvious that the Arabs who are trying to take over the world now needed a more violent document the the Bible. Kabu didn't,get your facts straight
posted by
WileyJohn
on December 18, 2009 at 7:06 AM
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I am tiring of this 'debate'! I commend you for this post! I want to be firm, I have read nearly everything that Chuck has put out and not ONCE have I found anything but love coming from this fine man. There are folks who are not associating with me because I have voiced my views on the wrongs that have beset Chuck! Chuck has said over and over that he is not qualified to answer questions and would prefer that folks seek out those who know! It would be like me trying to answer for everything that is in the Holy Bible; I study the Bible but am in no way an expert. This time of the year includes the Christian celebration of the birth of Christ; but many other celebrations are occurring as you cited. I say happy holidays and have never been rebuked. For me it has been about the fact that we have Christmas Eve, Christmas day, New Year's Eve, New Year's Day, occurring within a week. So there ya Have it, HAPPY HOLIDAYS in my humble opinion! This is just in reference to 'Christian' for this time of year! You are wonderful for Blogit and I am so pleased you are here. And now for the fifth one, Happy Hanukkah! Shelly
posted by
sam444
on December 18, 2009 at 4:33 AM
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