Go to Janes Opinion
- Add a comment
- Go to Can't Help Myself - Still Sure We're NOT Founded on Judeo-Christian Ideals?
Thanks Whacky for the smile and comments!!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on July 12, 2008 at 10:06 AM
| link to this | reply
I always enjoy your post. always
A rose
and a smile
from me! =^. .^= Bo too!
posted by
Whacky
on July 11, 2008 at 8:08 PM
| link to this | reply
Justi, I don't think we'll fully understand this side of eternity!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on July 11, 2008 at 7:57 PM
| link to this | reply
JanesOpinion
Excellent post. Why is it people who yelp the loudest are the biggest cowards when it comes to God and Jesus?
posted by
Justi
on July 11, 2008 at 7:55 PM
| link to this | reply
Kooka, I can buy that.
They would have received a classical education and well versed in Latin, Greek and ancient tradition and thought.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on July 7, 2008 at 1:47 PM
| link to this | reply
Janes,
Not there is no denying that there was a influence from Judeo Christian ideals, but that does not mean this country was founded on them. There is a great many historical influences that contributed to the founding of the USA. But that does not mean were founded on Ancient Greek ideals. In doing the research on this, I noticed that the Founding Fathers were very much aware of the societies that came before them, finding many influences in so many different areas of past governments. To try and claim that there is just one set of ideals that were the founding ideals, is really ignoring the greater picture of just what was looked at to create our Constitution and the Bill of Right, neither of which reflects purely Judeo Christian ideals, but show a wider range of thinking.
posted by
kooka_lives
on July 7, 2008 at 12:48 PM
| link to this | reply
Re: Ah, JanesO.......
Ha ha, Corbin. Not sure I want to get these friends of ours wound up. Too many other stressors, errr, I mean irons in the fire. You know how that goes. But this being July 4th I simply could not resist.
Hope your week goes well!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on July 6, 2008 at 7:44 PM
| link to this | reply
RSM, thanks! Not sure I want to be back as often
as I was before, but am simply not ready to let go. Blogit -- it's in the blood, or a curse or . . . . HOpe you have a good week!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on July 6, 2008 at 7:43 PM
| link to this | reply
Re: Those quotes do not show them to be Christian at all
Kooka, you will note that I was not pushing conservative evangelical christianity, or conservative Republican politics. My headline stated "Judeo Christian ideals." There's a huge difference between the two! Judeo Christian ideals does, indeed, encompass deism.
I agree with you that the founding fathers were, indeed, very liberal minded vs the stuffy closed minded Crown and his subjects. We're living in a different time now, where liberal vs conservative has an entirely different meaning.
Interesting quote from John Adams; I had not heard of this one. Interesting where he notes "above all the Catholics." Also, regarding your first quote from Ben Franklin, keep in mind that he was probably referring to the Catholic church which has historically had a huge amount of corrupt leadership. I entirely agree with Franklin's comments there, believe it or not. Both the church of England and the Church of Rome (Catholic) were empty, corrupt, dogmatic and perhaps even evil (I leave that for God to decide) at the time of our country's founding. I would venture to guess that their comments -- Adams and Franklin's -- were directed in that direction.
Thanks for stopping by!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on July 6, 2008 at 7:42 PM
| link to this | reply
Jane, So Nice To See You Again!
Perfect post as usual from yourself. You are 100% correct. Great facts listed here. All of us know this, even the atheists but you must forgive the ahteists for their opposition to your comments and to God; hey, it is like a job, it is what they do, ha!
Good to hear from you again!
posted by
RedStatesMan
on July 6, 2008 at 7:36 PM
| link to this | reply
Re: THAT'S NOT THE POINT
Xenox -- freedom to worship, yes, but this is becoming more and more evidently a freedom for ANY religion but Christianity! Islam, Kwaanza, Hinduism, etc. All are accepted by for example, the NEA, except Christianity. We're moving to freedom FROM Christianity and TO any other religion and for sure our Founding fathers would not have supported this.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on July 6, 2008 at 7:32 PM
| link to this | reply
Actually Corbin
Unlike you, Janes here has shown herself to be able to carry on a polite and respectful dialogue with people who disagree with her. I also doubt she would ever block someone just because they had provided a argument that proved her wrong in something she had said.
I would be interested in you actually trying to do something productive in a comments section and stay on subject for once. I did notice that instead of trying to address the points my father and I brought up here, all you did was try to mock us and make personal attacks. Not the best way to defend your views really.
Do you actually have anything that could present to prove my statements here wrong?
posted by
kooka_lives
on July 6, 2008 at 6:04 PM
| link to this | reply
Re: THAT'S NOT THE POINT
At last Xeno has admitted that Atheism is a form of "religion".
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on July 6, 2008 at 4:51 PM
| link to this | reply
Ah, JanesO.......
It been a while since you've been able to engage in a tag-team affair, hasn't it......brings back fond memories, doesn't it......now where's that mud pit???
(If you really want to get them goin' ask why the ice is melting at the North Pole and while at the same time increasing at the South Pole.)
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on July 6, 2008 at 4:50 PM
| link to this | reply
Those quotes do not show them to be Christian at all
If we look at many of the founding fathers, they are deists, not Christians. Here is another quote form Franklin: "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble."
As quoted in Benjamin Franklin: An Exploration of a Life of Science and Service (1938) by Carl Van Doren, p. 777
So while you might be able to find proof that Franklin believed in God, he clearly does not hold the basic Christian ideas of worshipping Christ.
Here's one from John Adams:
Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the ancient Christianism which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and Christian factions, above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed upon the public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in torrents.
- Letter to Thomas Jefferson (1813-12-03),
Not very pro-Christian at all.
Just believing in God or some form of a higher power, does not make a person Christian.
A very interesting thing I saw as a pattern confirming your quotes and seeing what else is out there, the founding fathers were LIBERAL, very liberal in fact. I personally feel that after looking at their quotes that they would be greatly offended with the Modern American Conservatives.
posted by
kooka_lives
on July 6, 2008 at 11:08 AM
| link to this | reply
THAT'S NOT THE POINT
If it were, there would be no other religion than Christianity
and only one Christian denomination.
The point is, our Founding Fathers gave us freedom to worship.
period.
They did not exclude any denomination or religion. They included all -- including atheists.
posted by
Xeno-x
on July 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM
| link to this | reply