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Gepruitt, have you changed you mind now?
There is a difference between lying and knowing when to keep your mouth shut. I do not go around telling everyone that I am an atheist and that I think only fools believe in God. I have the wisdom to know when to talk about religion and when not to. But that was not the claim you originally made here. You said that you would LIE about being an atheist, not keep your mouth shut in certain situations. There is a huge difference between the to ideas.
Are announced Pagans, Hindu, Buddhists and Muslims all '
losers' as well?
I am still interested in knowing what it is you really think we are losing by be open and honest about our beliefs.
posted by
kooka_lives
on May 31, 2008 at 11:53 AM
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Instead of losers, let's call it "disadvantaged".
Mainly because of bias.
However, this can be the case only if the surrounding society has a problem with atheists.
If the surrounding society is tolerant, then an announced atheist is on an equal part with those who believe in a deity.
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 30, 2008 at 10:34 PM
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Re: Losing
Stay tuned, and you will hear many more ways in which an announced Atheist is a loser. (If you really are honest with yourself, as you seem to put so much stock in), then I think you, yourself, must see far more ways than you seem willing to admit!
I, for instance, consider myself a Christian, but I still (except here on Blogit where I generally speak freely and frankly) keep a large part of my relgious opinions to myself, because these opinions often differ drastically from "mainline" Christian thinking, and I see no reason at all to jeopardise(sp) existing valued friendships among those literally thousands of Christians with whom I spend much of my personal, everyday and everymonth time. I put no stock at all in debate and contention, and I realize that many of my personal Christian friends are at different stages of religious developement and maturity. In their own due time, they will change on their own; they do not need, or want, me to correct them, and I do not correct or criticise them. My beliefs are for me and no one else, and I consider it foolish and a waste of time to try show others "the light" or the ways in which they are wrong and I am right.
One should not have the need (I certainly do not) to tell everything he knows and to "show off" his vast accumulation (I do not claim to have that, by the way) of knowlede, nor to sound like "the authority" on every subject he addresses, but some of us obviously do have that need! The wise man "knows when to speak and when to keep his peace (when to hold his tongue)." Some of us never seem to learn this little truth.
To hold one's tongue has little to do with lying. It is more closely associated with wisdom. Although I many times have deliberately witheld my personal beliefs from friends and associates, I have never had to lie about them. The resoursefull man never will.
This comment is growing longer than I was aware, and I might use it as a Blog post. I hope you have found at least some value in it.
posted by
GEPRUITT
on May 29, 2008 at 10:31 PM
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GEPRUITT
I don't believe you intentionally meant to offend with this, but you did. You really did show that you just don't get it with you ideas here. We are not Nero's Rome and we need to handle things differently than they did back then.
I just wrote a post about the greater level of this idea. After all the logic you used here would also need to apply to just about every other religion out there due toe ht attitudes of many Christian groups in this country. I have seen truly offensive propaganda towards Pagans, Hindu, Buddhists and now days especially Muslims. Each of those groups are treated very poorly by many Christians. Should members of those groups also hide and lie about who they really are? Would that actually make things better or help to solve any of the problems about religious tolerance?
Don't kid yourself. No days we need to be open and out there about making sure there is freedom in this country. We have been seeing time and time again that making your voice heard is the greatest way to get change and help insure greater freedom for all.
I still would like to know what you think I am losing by openly being an atheist.
posted by
kooka_lives
on May 29, 2008 at 8:58 PM
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Re: Actually, I can see that an announced atheist can have problems with
Xeno-x,
Exactly! you have hit the nail "square on the head!" The Atheists are precisely in the position of Christians in Nero's time. And, as I am sure you know, Christians of that time followed exactly the prescription that I suggested for Atheists of today. It worked admirally well for them then! Now, there are well over Billlion Christians in the world, and the "tables have turned!"
(P.S. Please, if you will, try to assure your son that I had no attention of insulting him or anyone else. My post, actually, was not even addressed to Athiests at all, but to Christians! Thanks. Gerald)
posted by
GEPRUITT
on May 29, 2008 at 6:06 PM
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Actually, I can see that an announced atheist can have problems with
a religious system that has problems with atheists and the bias that comes with it.
it's sort of like being an announced Christian in Nero's Rome. I can see quite a similarity there.
posted by
Xeno-x
on May 29, 2008 at 3:50 PM
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Re: You have no idea of what it is to be an atheist in this country
KOOKA,
Honestly, how could you possibly know that? I seriously doubt that you even know my full name, much less what I know or don't know. I could go on with this, but under the circumstances, I think that would be both imprudent and unproductive. So I won't. Have it your way, and have the last word if you like.
I seriously hope the very best for you in your personal life and that each of us will be as friendly as we are capable in any of our future dealings with each other. Life is simply too short, isn't it?
Live long and profit
posted by
GEPRUITT
on May 28, 2008 at 4:43 PM
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You have no idea of what it is to be an atheist in this country
To begin with, there is NOTHING about being honest about your beliefs that should ever label a person as a 'loser'. If anything, due to the 'high price' you talk about, those of us who are open about our beliefs show ourselves to be far from being losers. If you really wish to try and put some label on it we are revolutionaries if anything. "Losers' cower away and hide when they don't fit in or when their ideas are not mainstream. And the gain of being honest and being able to be yourself and speak you mind is by far greater than you can imagine. And I have lost nothing at all by being honest about my beliefs. What do you think we lose?
I just wrote a post about how atheists would love to keep a low profile, but not for the reasoning you have here. I would be a total loser if I were not speaking my mind as I do and making my beliefs heard.
And most atheists I know are 'announced' or at least they never deny the truth when it comes up. They are honest about their beliefs, and so by that logic you are calling most atheists 'losers', unless they cower away and hide the truth at which point they become liars, which to me is being a true loser. In truth any real atheist are going to be too honest to lie about being atheist. The honesty factor is a big part of atheism. We are honest with ourselves and here you are saying we should be ashamed and hide what we believe. That is not being honest with ourselves.
You are saying that to be honest and to be brave are traits that make one a 'loser' with your reasoning here.
And I never put one single word in your mouth with my comments. I only went off of what you said in that last post, nothing more.
posted by
kooka_lives
on May 28, 2008 at 12:46 PM
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