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Re: ACLU stands for what it means.
There is no need for any of that Xeno-x. I know you are a liberal and an atheist.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on
December 6, 2007
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8:31 PM
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ACLU stands for what it means.
CIVIL LIBERTIES
attempting to protect the constitution and constitutional rights.
I guess i will have to revive my reports on how they do that.
Of course you can also read me to understand my religious beliefs, if you haven't yet.
posted by
Xeno-x
on
December 4, 2007
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9:11 AM
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i support the buttons -- they make a statement that both Hitler youth and
school uniforms are evil in the eyes of the students
it does not in any way support Hitler or anything he stands for.
It's like calling the school a fascist regime for demanding uniforms.
posted by
Xeno-x
on
December 4, 2007
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9:04 AM
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RSM
Some are Jehovah Witnesses, but not all. I have
had Baptists, Catholics and it seems all other manner of believers bug me at
some point. I live just outside of Denver Colorado and we have a very diverse
culture out here. There have been times where it really does seem like you
can't walk down the street with out some believer coming up to you and telling
you how the end is coming and you need to make sure you soul is going to be
safe.
I wasn't 'whining' about the religious pamphlets in
the bathroom, just using them to make a point about how it seems like out here
the believers try to push their beliefs on you everywhere they can. I am
surprised that I've not found some kind standing next to me at the urinals
asking me if I've found God yet.
As for when the incident happened with the physical
threat, or at least the main one (There have been other minor times when someone
said I needed some religion beat into me). I was I think 20 at the time and was
just hanging out with some friends. We were talking about religion and beliefs
and I just openly said what it is I believed. A group of guys near by over
heard and decided that us 'immoral atheists' needed to be taught a lesson about
God's 'love'. I was truly afraid for my safety. My friends and I left the
place, since we didn't see the point in getting into a fight.
I've never seen any evidence at all to suggest a
single one of your claims about the ACLU to be true. They very often defend
Christians, just like they do anyone else who needs their help. And what
outrageous statements do I make here that are based off of nothing more than my
beliefs that I claim to be anything others than my views? If I say something is
a fact, then I provide proof that backs me up, otherwise I very openly say it is
my opinions.
Being anti-war has nothing to do with terrorism.
We are NOT fighting the war on terror in Iraq. Hell, we really aren't doing
anything at all against the terrorists right now. We've given them plenty of
time to reorganize. Bush has been a great friend to them by starting the war in
Iraq.
Do you do any thinking at all for yourself, or is
everything you believe in based off of the far left fundamentalist propaganda
machine's BS?
posted by
kooka_lives
on
December 1, 2007
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10:44 AM
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Re: RSM
I am 99% certain that if I knew who you were I could then immediately understand what and why things in your life occur. You had stated earlier that, and I quote:
" I've dealt with them just about every place imaginable at some point it seems. The park, the bus stop, work, out eating dinner, shopping. They come to my door and tell me how I need to be saved because the end times are near. Hell, I've even seen pamphlets left in the public restrooms. Seriously the 'church goers' are always on the prowl out here it seems."
Again, I am not sure where you live but at the bus stop, at work, out eating dinner and shopping? What are you, some Jehovah Witness magnet? I have seen many thing in a public bathroom that "offend" me but you don't see me running around whining about it. I take my 6 year old son to a baseball game and go into the bathroom stalls and see what? Vulgar writing all over the place from some homo! So don't complain about pamphlets laying around, geez. You sound like you have not been around much.
Who has that kind of time and desire to threaten some atheist? Was this when you were a teenager?
Trust me, what the ACLU is doing is not just my beliefs but fact. Do not try to deny that just because you are a ACLU supporter. By the way, you make some outrageous statements every day on here "based off nothing more than your beliefs.
Also, I certainly do not want to find any anti-war statements on BLOGIT made by you since you are so concerned about terrorism and people forcing their religious beliefs on you. I get the feeling that it would be very easy for me to find such comments coming from you. Liberalism is contradiction.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on
November 30, 2007
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8:07 PM
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RSM
Why don't you go and ask Gomedome about Christians
using terrorist tactics as a way to force their beliefs on others. I am sure he
will give you a fair amount of stories from his own life.
Sorry, but to physically threaten someone just
because they do not share your beliefs is TERRORIST tactics. It was made very
clear to me that I was unwelcome in a public place and should not return there
unless I wanted to be severally beaten by a group of Christians. A group of
believers who used fear to get me to do as they wished... How is that not
terrorism?
Also, you need to really read what is being said.
I never said I was being terrorized all over the place, just harassed. You seem
to not understand what 'forcing beliefs' on others is. I have been told by
believers to my face how worthless my life must be all because I do not believe
in God. I have been mocked and made fun of. I have been bullied, harassed and
put down. I've not made the claim that those actions are terrorist like, but
there is no way to deny that such tactics are nothing more than trying to force
beliefs on a person. And these people have been of various groups, including
Baptists, Catholics and others.
You claim I am the paranoid one, yet you are the
one still insisting that the ACLU is trying to 'eliminate Christianity'. I'm
going off of what I have seen and experienced myself, not any form of
propaganda. You are the one making some fairly outrageous statements based off
of nothing more than your beliefs.
posted by
kooka_lives
on
November 30, 2007
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10:05 AM
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Kooka's Step-Dad Is An Atheist
Excuse me Kooka, you are correct, it was your step-Dad who is the atheist not your Dad. I remembered that from years ago but I just got the wrong Dad in my mind. Nonetheless I was correct.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on
November 29, 2007
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6:01 PM
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Re: My dad's an atheist?
Kooka, Kooka, Kooka! Ease up pal! I don't want to turn into the new video for the old song by Men At Work "Who Can It Be Now." Dude, are you that paranoid?
I have lived in Virginia (for the first 18 years of my life) , Maryland (from 1985-1990) and North Carolina (1979-1985 and 1990-present) . It is not what I call the "deep" south but close enough. I know what you mean by people who come to your house to talk religion. Down here those people are usually of the Jehovah Witness denomination. However, there are more. What is called primitive Baptist or free will Baptist can be just as confrontational. I am your 'run of the mill' Baptist; the first Baptist church goer. In other words, I am not as strict, if you will, as the others mentioned. There are many differences among denominations. As far as the ones who visit your house, we have either pretended no one was at home or if I was feeling like a debate then I would welcome them in. For instance, the Jehovah Witness does not believe that Jesus Christ Our Savior has ever been here on earth. I do believe he was here and He is my Savior. So... the debate is on.
You see, not all Christians are the same. However, I do not agree with the ACLU trying to eliminate Christianity. There are many things in life I do not agree with but I tolerate. I can not imagine any Christian using "terrorist" tactics against you. Are you sure that is not just a little exaggerated? It is obvious that you do not know anything about terrorism. What experience have you had with terrorist that can support your claim that Christians have 'terrorized" you at ever imaginable place on earth including your home?
posted by
RedStatesMan
on
November 29, 2007
at
5:59 PM
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My dad's an atheist?
If you are talking about Xeno_x here on Blogit, he is
NOT an atheist and I am unsure where you got that from. He goes to church every
week and is very active in his church out there. His beliefs are not run of the
mill, but he does believe in God.
My step father is an atheist and I did not know
that until I came out as an atheist myself and started talking about my
beliefs. I very much explored the world before I came to my beliefs and there
was no doctrine at all that I follow. I use common sense and loci to figure out
how to live my life.
If you still foolishly believe Christians do not
attack people or push themselves on people and so on, then you really have not
gotten out in the world. I have been at bus stops, minding my own business when
a few of them swarmed around with the pamphlets and started talking to everyone
there, and if you said you weren't interested, they started asking questions
about 'why' and just not getting the message you weren't interested. You cannot
help but some in contact with 'church goers' they are everywhere and they can
be very annoying and aggressive. I've dealt with them just about every place
imaginable at some point it seems. The park, the bus stop, work, out eating
dinner, shopping. They come to my door and tell me how I need to be saved
because the end times are near. Hell, I've even seen pamphlets left in the
public restrooms. Seriously the 'church goers' are always on the prowl out here
it seems.
Also RedStatesMan, I have never said you personally were forcing your
beliefs on me. I'm not sure where you got hat from. I have had Christians try
to force their beliefs on me, both here and in the real world. And as I tried
to point out, there have been basically terrorist tactics used on me to by
believers, saying that if I did not leave (And it was a public place) that they
would physically assault me just because I did not share their beliefs. You try
to claim that me saying that such things could happen to me again if I preach my
belief in a situation where there will be a great deal of believers is just me
making 'speculations'.
There is a time and place for people to preach their beliefs and a
graduation ceremony is NOT the right place for such. I don't care if you are
Muslim, Jew, Pagan or Christian, due to the level of diversity that should be
present in that situation, it is best to show respect for everyone by just
leaving religion out of it.
posted by
kooka_lives
on
November 29, 2007
at
11:33 AM
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Red
I'm not really a practicing Christian (nor do I practice any other religion really), but I have to agree with you that many 'progressive' organizations seem to go out of their way to stifle free speech when it comes to mentioning any religious symbols or figures - and that's just sad.
Be well,
-smartdog
posted by
smartdog_670
on
November 29, 2007
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6:44 AM
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Re: Speculation?
Kooka, I know that your Dad is also an atheist. Did you simply accept his doctrine as truth or did you explore the rest of the world? I can not imagine where you are or how you are being attacked by Christians. There must be more to this story.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on
November 28, 2007
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10:09 PM
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Re: Speculation?
Where do you live? Appalachia? Do you live in some remot mountain village where people handle snakes as a relgious ritual? Why do come in contact with these "church goers?" Or are you psycho?
posted by
RedStatesMan
on
November 28, 2007
at
10:05 PM
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Re: bpitter
Did I force my beliefs on you in a post on a blog in the electronic box known as a computer? When I think of "forcing relgious beliefs" I think of the beliefs of terrorist who truly want to force you convert or die. Did or have I ever done that to you? I am not sure what you have encountered in your life with Christians because i was not there with you was I? However, I have every right to express my views as you do about atheism. If you feel that someone is forcing you to believe as they do then you have the right not to so why are you so bothered by this? I have encountered certain religions (free will baptist which is completely different than Baptist) who are quick to condemn and claim they have a personal telephone line to God himself. I don't agree with that approach at all and that makes me angry when I hear that crap but you seem to think everyone is out to force you into something. You need help. I was simply making a statement on how certain religions are being given a free pass such as the Muslim religion and if I or anyone else utters Jesus Christ or opens the Bible then I am held in comtempt. Which is no different than what you are saying. Is it not?
posted by
RedStatesMan
on
November 28, 2007
at
9:58 PM
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Re: Liberals
This is my opinion. Just like you have an opinion that I may not agree with. I did not ask or force you to agree with my opinion. You chose to read this post. I also have not categorized you into any slot. You said that you believe that everyone has the right to say what they please. I just practiced what you preach. I did not ask that you agree with my views.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on
November 28, 2007
at
9:46 PM
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bpitter
I've been to church and it is very much NOT the place for me. Trust me on
this I get nothing at all out of church. Never have and most likely never
will.
As for the idea of 'forcing beliefs', I know the
difference between sharing beliefs and trying to force them on others. You do
not share you beliefs by trying to guilt people through telling them they are
going to Hell and need to come to church to be saved. You are not sharing your
beliefs when every time you see a certain persons you bring up how empty and
meaningless their life is just because they do not believe as you do. You are
not sharing your beliefs when you tell a person they better leave if they know
what is good for them or you're gonna have to beat some religion into them.
Or do you think any of those examples are just
people who want to share their beliefs with me in an open and friendly manner
and somehow I misunderstood?
When it is just sharing belief, I get along with
people great. When they go to the level of trying force their beliefs on me, I
want nothing to do with them.
posted by
kooka_lives
on
November 28, 2007
at
12:35 PM
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Church Goers!
Just because someone expresses their beliefs which may be contrary to yours doesn't mean they are forcing you to believe as they do. The more you want them to understand what you believe, the more they want you to understand what they believe. So if you think they are forcing you into church, then where are you forcing them?
Church may not be a bad place for you!
posted by
b2008
on
November 28, 2007
at
9:13 AM
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Liberals
I would just like to know why everything contradictory to Republican beliefs all fall under the category of being a Liberal? What is your definition of a liberal?
I'm neither a Republican nor a Liberal. I am a Democrat but that doesn't mean I'm automatically a Liberal. I don't believe in any of that stuff posted in either article and you suggest that it's the Liberals who are trying to take away our rights. Can you explain that, please?
I believe everyone should have the right to say what they please. Our laws are to protect us against those who want to do as they please. If everybody did what they wanted to do, we would have total chaos. I believe the ACLU goes from one extreme to another and therefore have no clout in my view. I also believe the higher courts try to protect everyone's right to dissent. But no organization is going to get it right every time. Humans do make mistakes in judgment. But just because you feel one way and I feel another doesn't give you the right to categorize me or anyone who disagrees with you as a Liberal. Do you agree?
posted by
b2008
on
November 28, 2007
at
9:10 AM
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Speculation?
I have been physically threatened by good old
church goers because I talked openly about my beliefs. I have had your good old
church goers hound me and push me and do all manner of annoying activity to try
and get me to go to church in hopes of forcing their beliefs on me.
How is this speculation? How am I not backing my
claims up? Are you saying I am lying about this? Are you actually going to try
and claim that believers never do such things?
I experienced it already and so I know what can
happen. It is actually more speculation to make the claim that observed
activity is not going to happen again.
posted by
kooka_lives
on
November 28, 2007
at
8:35 AM
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Re: RSM
Typical atheist. All speculation with nothing to back it up. Kooka, I would rather die spending my whole life believing in Christ than being an atheist any day. For your sake only, I hope you are right.
posted by
RedStatesMan
on
November 27, 2007
at
10:27 PM
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RSM
I understand, you hate the freedom of people to
protest unless they are protesting the way you want them to. The button
described here had people giving the Nazi salute but had nothing clearly Nazi
about it. It was being used not to say that the Nazis were a good thing, but
that they felt that mandatory school uniforms could be seen as being comparable
to the tactics of the Nazi party to destroy indivualism and create mindless
followers.
I knew many kids who brought Bibles to school and
wore religious shirts and no one ever had any problem with it at all. My good
friend who was born again, worse religious shirts all the time. he was also
part of a prayer group that met before school every so often. Unless those
things actually interfere with the teaching or is being forced on students,
there is nothing wrong with them and I have not seen anything saying those kind
of things are being banned.
And I already know that I would be more or less
thrown out of the picnic. After all I have been threaten physically by believers
for openly stating my beliefs, and I was not even doing it in an inappropriate
place, including here on Blogit. If I started preaching atheism to a Church
picnic, chances are things would get nasty real quick and they would do all they
could to get me to shut up and leave. Then they would be hounding me constantly
trying to convert me and push their faith on me. I've already gone through most
of that, and I've not even needed to do anything more than be honest to someone
about my beliefs.
You also might want to proof read a bit better, you
just said that the church WOULD chop my head of like you claim the Muslim would
do. Of course considering that Christians HAVE gone and killed people just for
not believing as they do, maybe you really did mean to say your church goers
would chop my head off.
I find your paranoia amusing to some degree, but I
also see how scary it is that there are people like you out there. You really
are confused about a lot of things, that much is clear.
I am just glad that people lie you have not been
able to take our freedoms away as you clearly desire to do. The ACLU is not
involved in all the cases you disagree with, but they are obviously a great
force for freedom and for defending the Constitution and the Bill of
Rights.
posted by
kooka_lives
on
November 26, 2007
at
11:32 AM
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Need to digest this
posted by
Straightforward
on
November 26, 2007
at
10:06 AM
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Re: Wow are you clueless here
Oh please kooka, did you make a stretch on that one. So it is okay to depict a Hitler like symbol in school but if I brought a Bible into school or wore a Jesus like symbol then I would be kicked out. What part of that do you not get? I am not talking about the protest against the school uniforms. I am talking about what was used in the protest.
If you came to a church picnic and started preaching atheism then the church goers would speak to you about the word of Christ. They would not demand you to convert and if you did not then they would chop your head off like the Muslim belief would do. I am glad that you are a U.S. citizen because I am not sure how long you would last in the Middle East.
These articles and the ACLU connection is plain as day. Everyone knows that the ACLU is behind all of these decisions either directly or indirectly. Wake up, man!
posted by
RedStatesMan
on
November 25, 2007
at
7:11 PM
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I am saddened to think that people who think like you, don't have the freedom of speech to express what is in their heart. There is no denning that JESUS did walk this earth, so to say so only gives the individual power over the oppressed.
posted by
angelink
on
November 25, 2007
at
12:21 AM
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Wow are you clueless here
Where were they advocating Hitler? You must have
read some other article than the one you posted here. The students were
implying that making them were school uniforms is a step towards turning them
into something like the Nazis, by destroying individuality and keeping them from
being able to think for themselves.
I know many, many people, some how are
Christians, who would have been offended if at my graduation one of the speakers
started off about how we need to find Jesus Christ. High School graduation are
not the correct place for such speeches. The young lady should have been
respectful of others and kept religion where it belongs, in her home and her
church, not at a school function. How would you feel it I got invited to your
church picnic and started preaching atheism? it would not be the right place to
do such.
And neither of those article mentioned the ACLU at
all. So I am lost as to your connection between the ACLU and those two
events
posted by
kooka_lives
on
November 23, 2007
at
11:02 AM
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ACLU: American Contradictory Liberals Union
RedStatesMan: The girl should've been allowed to mention Jesus Christ in her speech. Regarding the school uniform article, I agree with the students and parents protesting school uniforms. I don't think that it makes any difference how someone is dressed. Clothing is a matter of individual choice and taste. However, wearing something that glamorizes Hitler goes a bit overboard. It certainly gets the attention of the school administration. I don't think that the students agree with Hitler. They just wore the armbands as an example of the policy. Wearing a school uniform makes everyone look the same and eliminates individuality and creativity. Do we want that in a school?
posted by
WavyDavy
on
November 22, 2007
at
9:46 AM
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