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- Go to Latest Poll: 67% Of Americans Oppose War In Iraq (All Time High)
You are absolutely right, Frankenkitty...
posted by
saul_relative
on November 16, 2007 at 11:06 AM
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Great quote!
This is the trouble with manipulation - it's not sustainable. Eventually things appear as they are to the disuaded, but usually only after some jerk has squuezed them for all they could get away with. It's unfortunate. Take care
posted by
Flumpystalls3000
on November 16, 2007 at 6:25 AM
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That's it exactly, laydi daydi. They don't really care about anything as
long as they get what they want and are allowed to stay in power.
posted by
saul_relative
on November 12, 2007 at 10:31 PM
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Short, sweet and mind-shattering. But, do U think those who have it all,
want - really wish - to understand other points of view, or cultures, or politics? I think not... that is why they theorize, to justify, to propagate their wish-list for the world. I have studied history as much as anyone ...even Jefferson who hated big government, told friends and foe to NOT raise questions of the Constitution allowed for buying new land, or even creating new states. Federalists called him a hypocrite and then helped the Senate confirm the louisiana Purchase 1803-1804. BEACUSE it is a good thing for US to be BIGGER and federal gov't stronger....but not so for Soviets, South Asians, Iraqis, ARAB Unions....you get the idea. People get smarter at playing dumb in this new era of grab, get, steal.Shalom
posted by
ILLUMINATI8
on November 12, 2007 at 2:41 PM
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Thanks, MandaLee...
posted by
saul_relative
on November 12, 2007 at 10:06 AM
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posted by
Amanda__
on November 12, 2007 at 5:57 AM
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Disraeli said that there were three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and
statistics. But these numbers are remaining consistent, no matter which organization conducts the polls. The fact remains that the Bush administration manipulated data to fit what they wanted to make happen. They deserve these numbers.
posted by
saul_relative
on November 11, 2007 at 7:54 PM
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That is the politician's trick of manipulating statistics. They called it lying with statistics
katzs
posted by
katzs
on November 11, 2007 at 4:08 PM
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I don't have any hopes of any of them ending it in a timely manner, katray,
due to the diplomatic destructiveness of the Bush administration and the fact that he and his "executive privilege" pen still control the presidency for another fourteen months.
posted by
saul_relative
on November 11, 2007 at 12:34 PM
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Up, up, up and away
the opposition and deaths; including those of innocent Iraqis caught in the middle...will of the citizenry is meaningless. I don't have much hope for Hillary Clinton ending it in a timely manner..Good post, quote and comments, Saul.
posted by
Katray2
on November 11, 2007 at 2:09 AM
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There you have it, joab. When the creators of the manipulation believe
thier own propaganda, there exists a reality problem. The extreme partisans on both sides are like that, blinded by their own denial of the manipulation or spin they put on everything to fit their narrowly defined views of how things "ought to be."
posted by
saul_relative
on November 10, 2007 at 10:29 AM
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being against the war doesn't need an ideology or media bias
saul is dead-on. I believe critical thinking is sitting this one out. But . . . damn, the partisan pablum that we are spoon-fed 24/7 is fit only for junkies, who will fix(ate) on anything that mainlines their stream of thought. Manipulation has been elevated to a perfect state of denial, ie, most people deny being manipulated. The entire bloody mess is a house of mirrors, and I feel that the constructors, themselves, can no longer locate the "exit" panel. joab
posted by
joab1
on November 10, 2007 at 9:59 AM
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I don't think there's much of a difference, tigerprincess. War is war.
Even FoxNews, which wraps everything we do in the flag, has watchers against the war in Iraq. People are smart enough to get the idea that, no matter if it's Katie Kuric, Lou Dobbs, or Alan Colmes, 2 or 5 or 10 Americans dying in a single day in Iraq is still Americans dying in Iraq. Whether your slant is liberal, conservative, or centrist, being against the war doesn't need an ideology or media bias...
posted by
saul_relative
on November 9, 2007 at 9:34 PM
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Maybe, EX TURPI, but you know there are always hawks and
administration zealots who will back the war. They're the ones always screaming that everybody else doesn't "get it" or "understand what's going on" or "what's at stake."
posted by
saul_relative
on November 9, 2007 at 9:20 PM
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No apologies necessary, joab. And you're right. Our government
becomes more Orwellian every day. Fake press conferences indeed. The intricacies of the political, religious, and cultural dealings in Iraq are indeed diverse, myriad, and volatile. The problem has come from this administration's inability to formulate a foreign policy that would be advantageous to Iraq, the Middle East and the United States. Instead, we invaded and occupied, twisting the facts to suit the deed after going in on little to no data. Bless the boys and girls that have had to deal with this ongoing military nightmare.
posted by
saul_relative
on November 9, 2007 at 9:17 PM
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Saul
That's probably understated.
posted by
EX_TURPI
on November 9, 2007 at 3:24 PM
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67% Of Americans Oppose War In Iraq (All Time High)
"I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." -- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
I guess since he's a "Sir" he knows whereof he speaks. I guess. 
joab
As to the "sand box" situation, (our son has been 4 times and returned safely) I can only think of the countless/endless wars and civilizations that have been covered by those shifting dunes -- and still the fighting continues with no end in sight. He describes a very complex situation where politics and religion march lockstep in one moment, and in the next, they are at one another's throats over some thousand-year old perceived wrong that must surface and be dealt with, with "honor". Tribalism can be reduced to its most complex enemy -- its own existence. And it can only continue to exist by rising like some phoenix throughout time, sipping on blood, before settling securely once again in the fanatic's midst. And its presence is like the proverbial "camel in the tent". It's not going away of its own accord once inside.
The politicians and their cohorts -- most of the mainstream press -- have beat the drums steadily now and the pain on the national psyche is becoming severe. How can we believe a government that stages "phoney" press conferences? The war is quickly becoming an abberation; distorted by the left as a "war of conquest", and by the right as a fight for "truth, justice, and the American way". Both are disingenuous with us, and because they are, no one can trust them --only lie down in bed for an inconvenient session, close one's eyes, and pretend it's the favored candidate that's jumping our bones.
I don't think so. And sorry for the long comment. joab
posted by
joab1
on November 9, 2007 at 12:42 PM
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My question would be if its the real war or the media's version of it that everyone's opposing....
posted by
tigerprincess
on November 9, 2007 at 12:20 PM
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Thanks, afzal...
posted by
saul_relative
on November 9, 2007 at 11:17 AM
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posted by
afzal50
on November 9, 2007 at 10:48 AM
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