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Re: I disagree. Feel better?
saul...hahahahaha!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 15, 2007 at 5:00 PM
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I disagree. Feel better?
Seriously, I totally agree with you. I've always been an anti-grain person. Except for pure grain (can't make purple jesus without it). My mom's head shakes constantly in frustration. I'm the only guy to vote Republican on both sides of my family in fifty years. I'm the only born again atheist. I'm also the only writer...
posted by
saul_relative
on November 14, 2007 at 12:04 AM
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Re: this post really makes you think, at first i tried to apply it to blogit,
Hi callista, you can actually apply groupthink to any group. Some groups, however, don't have as much impact as others. I can see groupthink on Blogit, particularly in the religion and spirituality sections, where there are often heated discussions, and little support of either side out of fear of standing out in the crowd. For example, when certain writers on this site attack specific cultures or belief systems with little or no fact base, the reply is: "good post! I agree! Great job!" and little by way of discussion, and a fear of coming forward and defending someone that is under attack, regardless their beliefs. Emotional responses foster groupthink attitudes.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 12, 2007 at 6:54 AM
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this post really makes you think, at first i tried to apply it to blogit,
but really couldnt, then i thought it really is like my work place, expected to be parrots. I try to follow most of the rules, but alas, i am so low on the totem pole that i just do what i think is best because they don't fire people that low, not because we cant be replaced, but because its just to much of a hassle to train a new person. May be if you make alot of money and you get use to it, or you want to climb the ladder you become more of a groupthinker. If you come to visit me at my blog you dont have to agree, sometimes if you dont it gives me another perspective and i might even change my mind, mind you i said might.
posted by
callista22001
on November 10, 2007 at 9:11 PM
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OK, I have an odd number of comments.
So this is a nothing comment, just to give me an even number. It was my fault, I added two comments in a row and threw it off. (yes, I know, its quite the piccadillo.)
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 9, 2007 at 8:38 AM
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Re: This remindes me of a quote a read once... I think I posted it in one of my
Sheilah, how true.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 9, 2007 at 8:35 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Hmmmm??
No, but I play one on TV.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 9, 2007 at 8:32 AM
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This remindes me of a quote a read once... I think I posted it in one of my
blogs, but now I can't remember who said it. It goes something like this:
"In a group of people, if everyone is thinking alike - then someone isn't thinking." 
posted by
Sheilah
on November 9, 2007 at 5:40 AM
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Re: Re: Hmmmm??
Are you a politician?
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on November 9, 2007 at 5:38 AM
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Re: Hmmmm??
Corbin: The same difference as between Apples and Diesel Engines.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 9, 2007 at 5:33 AM
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Hmmmm??
What's the difference between "groupthink" and a "feeding frenzy"???
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on November 9, 2007 at 5:31 AM
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Re: When I was out in the country the other day,
Oddy, thanks for reading---yeah, I think "herd mentality" is why Savage calls folks "sheeple".
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 9, 2007 at 5:29 AM
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When I was out in the country the other day,
I think I heard them refer to this as a “herd mentality”. LOL - A really nice post.
posted by
Oddy
on November 9, 2007 at 12:08 AM
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Re: FYS, often you read people who proclaim to be radicals
Azur: Part of the issue you are bringing up here is a lack of understanding of what groupthink is. It's often confused with cohesiveness, which is clearly not the same thing. In a group exhibiting cohesiveness, a disagreement can arise without threatening the group. Unity can remain despite a conflict, whether from within or without. With rational, careful examination, a cohesive group can consider a point of disagreement without destroying the integrity of the group.
Disagreement should be viewed as a good thing, because it offers a challenge, forcing us to examine our own way of thinking, and then allowing the new information to find a place of harmony within ourselves. In a nutshell, disagreement is the seed of growth.
Groupthink discourages disagreement, and therefore discourages growth.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 3:55 PM
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Re: Yep. In England, a ggod example of groupthink is the skinhead male haircut.
Tony, thank you for this...another manifestation of the concept. People are afraid to stand out, appear different, and be an individual. You're comment reminds me of a program I was watching, where this woman was insisting that she was an individual, because she chooses to dye her hair purple, dress in black, wear goth makeup and decorate her home like a graveyard...just like her 20+ friends do.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 3:18 PM
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Re: FineYoungSinger
Nautikos, I'll have to check out that book. sounds very interesting.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 3:15 PM
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FYS, often you read people who proclaim to be radicals
but who bristle when anyone strays from groupthink. I think if someone doesn't disagree with me at least once in a while, I am losing my touch. The other issue is that people are often oversensitive when someone thinks differently and regard it as personal.
posted by
Azur
on November 8, 2007 at 2:12 PM
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Yep. In England, a ggod example of groupthink is the skinhead male haircut.
It's everywhere now, especially among the 'workking classes.' It didn't use to be, but I guess they feel they've got to fit in and symbolise their membership of a certain group. The group being Army Fodder - will do whatever they're told to do. then there's choices of names. Why are there so many Jacks now? There weren't any when I was young, except in nursery rhymes. In my day they were all Steve, Dave and Kevin. Jim has become Jamie, and Bill or Billy is Will. Don't these people realise that by picking currently common names, their sons of today are the Steves and Daves and Kevins of yesteryear? Doh...
posted by
Antonionioni
on November 8, 2007 at 1:28 PM
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FineYoungSinger
Back in 1950, in his book
The Lonely Crowd, David Riesman coined and 'fleshed out', as it were, the notions of 'inner-directedness' and 'other-directedness', which I find more useful than the notion of 'groupthink'...
posted by
Nautikos
on November 8, 2007 at 1:10 PM
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Re: FineYoungSinger
WileyJohn, that's my all-time goal!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 12:32 PM
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FineYoungSinger
That is why I was an entrepreneur most of my life, no arguments with anybody about my thinking...
posted by
WileyJohn
on November 8, 2007 at 12:18 PM
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Ariala: you mentioned contentious people.
This is one of those touchy areas as well. Now, we know a real trouble maker when we see one. I'm related to one--you say high, she says low and then gives you a 20 minute lecture as to why it's low. They are usually friendless, bitter, angry and sometimes even talk to themselves (hahaha).
But when we walk into a situation, for example a new workplace, someone will flock to the new person and say, "HEY, WATCH THAT PERSON! THEY'RE TROUBLE!" and then you witness a meeting where "that person" is objecting to something and getting frustrated, and everyone is just flabbergasted that they are disagreeing. Then that person is labeled contentious.
Then after a few months you find out the the objector is really trying to tell the group that they're making a mistake that will cost the company, and are ignored because of the sneaky little animal, groupthink.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 7:35 AM
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Re: I don't think I was disagreeing with this...I agree
Ariala, don't let my passion of this topic discourage your comments, or lead you to think I don't see your agreement with me. I'm just elaborating because I'm on a roll. Please, feel free to interject anything you like. Believe me, your opinions and thoughts are very much welcome, and appreciated.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 7:27 AM
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Re: FYS
OTA, that's exactly it. In a groupthink situation, there is no other choice but to follow the group. I've personally experienced this phenomenon as an objector on projects in which I've spend numerous hours, and cared deeply about. Groupthink is not "they disagree with me and oh well, I'll go on my merry way." Groupthink will eliminate the disagreeing party/parties and continue to perpetuate the laid out agenda. Unless you've truly experienced it, you can't appreciate the danger of it. It goes far beyond concensus of an arbitrary issue.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 7:24 AM
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I don't think I was disagreeing with this...I agree
posted by
Ariala
on November 8, 2007 at 7:22 AM
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Re: When it's life or death, being ignored is definitely wrong...but on Blogit
I believe I addressed rudeness and irrationality in general disagreements in my post. In the context of groupthink, however, rudeness and irrationality are inflicted upon all objectors, even those presenting facts rationally.
Just because a situation isn't life or death does not diminish the essentials: the ability to discuss objectives (even if they are not part of developing them) within a group; the right to fair treatment within the group; the right to be heard without backlash; the right to ask a question and pose objections; and the right to have the questions and objections addressed seriously and answered, particularly when objections are raised repeatedly to no avail. Disallowing any one of these is symptomatic of groupthink.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 7:12 AM
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FYS
Interesting. Just thinking out loud..
how vanilla life would be if we all thought the same .. or gave the impression that we did anyway..
where would the texture in relationships come from if we all just agreed all the time?..
its seems no wonder that agreement for agreements sake is a slippery slope...
pride goes before a fall maybe?
I dunno.. I dont know anything ~Peace, OTA
posted by
Blue_feathers
on November 8, 2007 at 6:58 AM
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When it's life or death, being ignored is definitely wrong...but on Blogit
sometimes we have to agree to disagree with our objectors, and if they refuse, well, we have no other alternative than to ignore or block them...in life, we try to stay away from contentious people...it's one thing to have rational discussions and another thing to deal with rude, obnoxious irrational people.
posted by
Ariala
on November 8, 2007 at 6:54 AM
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Re: Having gone against the grain most my life, I don't let groupthink make me
Light and rational is necessary in handling disagreement; however, in groupthink, objections are squelched, placing the objective or goals of the group caught up in it at risk of failure. The Space Shuttle Disaster is an example of this. Was it beneficial to the 7 astronauts that the objectors to the launch were put on ignore?
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 6:47 AM
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Having gone against the grain most my life, I don't let groupthink make me
do anything I don't want to do...I try to keep things light and rational when disagreements happen...I try to separate the person from the disagreement...as long as they don't make it personal and rude, things usually work well...if it is taken to the rude level, I usually get hold of my sense of humor and use that to deal with it or put them on ignore.
Good post!
posted by
Ariala
on November 8, 2007 at 5:55 AM
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Re: Good thoughts and great story of work thanks
hi Shams, thanks for reading!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 5:46 AM
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Re: I disagree! lol
Chyrlann--too funny, girl! but I totally hear you on what you're saying. It's just better to be upfront. Great example you and your family set.
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 5:46 AM
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Re: Very interesting, FineYoungSinger
Hi TAPS. Sure does, eh? Thanks for reading!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 5:44 AM
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Re: Thanks for sharing !
thanks for reading, Afzal!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 5:43 AM
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Re: FYS
hi rich, thanks for reading!
posted by
FineYoungSinger
on November 8, 2007 at 5:38 AM
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Good thoughts and great story of work thanks
posted by
Shams-i-Heartsong
on November 8, 2007 at 4:44 AM
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I disagree! lol
I'm generally the rebel. I don't enjoy conflict but refuse to keep my mouth shut when having an opinion (obviously). I often ask friends, family, coworkers and clients to be gentle and kind but PLEASE bring to my attention any improprieties or indiscretions they may encounter from, by or through me. My brother is excellent at stating; You need to practice your listening skills, again. My mother is never short of 'Whew! way over my head...slow down and come down off the ceiling so I can understand your point!" I'm rather accustom to responses such as these. Always room for improvement. Great advice you've offered here!
posted by
roadscross
on November 7, 2007 at 11:08 PM
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Very interesting, FineYoungSinger
Sure makes one think.
posted by
TAPS.
on November 7, 2007 at 9:25 PM
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Thanks for sharing !
posted by
afzal50
on November 7, 2007 at 9:00 PM
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FYS
posted by
richinstore
on November 7, 2007 at 8:56 PM
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