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Not really...No, you didn't get it. You just put your spin on what I wrote.
In my post, I Can See Clearly Now, I defined how I see the "Left." It has nothing to do with Luddites, or the other characteristics you listed. Nor do I characterize the Right in your terms; and incidentally, I do not consider myself a member of either group.
Look, DL, I do understand and appreciate the humor you are injecting into the discussion. Nevertheless, I see your humor, at least in part, as an attempt to impart your spin to our readers (because I am certain this conversation is being followed by many).
I deplore deliberate distortion of another person's point of view in order to strengthen one's own agrument, or in order to present another view. I prefer stating my opinion, backed by whatever facts I can muster (if facts are pertinent), listening to the other inputs, analysing them, and responding, point by point, backed by further data, and refuting opposing points either with cogent argument or pertinent facts, as appropriate.
posted by
arGee
on October 2, 2003 at 10:52 AM
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So Let Me See...
...if I've got this sorted.
The Left are backward Luddites, against progress, tree-huggers, illogical, emotional, and a bit like lab rats. Oh, and wrong.
And the Right are progressive, forward-looking, rational, logical, sensible, and work only with facts and empirical evidence. Oh, and right. (The Right are right??)
Do I have these generalisations summarised correctly? Have I missed anything?
See, I'm just trying to uncover the assumptions underlying your posts.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on October 2, 2003 at 10:27 AM
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Just because you don't believe in Left, Right, etc...
...does not make the concepts they represent invalid. In formal logic, (not A) does not imply (B).
Furthermore, granted that the U.S. is thirsty for oil, and granted, currently U.S. troops are in the Middle East...these statements do not make the events related. There is a legitimate reason for each fact you cite. each of these reasons is verifiable. I won't do it here, but you can rely on the certainty that the reasons are completely legitimate. These reasons carry nothing to suggest that the impirialistic motives you presume are actually present.
Incidentally, it is typical of the Left to string a series of unrelated events together, and then argue as if they really were interdependent.
Monkeys and rats do this: an experienced experimental rat in a new cage, faced with three levers, will begin to run around randomly, doing things like summersaulting, jumping up and down, etc., until it accidentally hits the appropriate food lever. From then on, in that cage, the rat will replay the identical sequence of moves that resulted in a food pellet falling in its dish. In its mind the specific sequence is directly related to the production of food. The Left does this all the time...go figure...
posted by
arGee
on October 2, 2003 at 10:18 AM
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I Don't Subscribe...
...to labels such as Left, Right, Elite, or anything else. If others feel the need to put me in a box, far be it from me to stop them.
I've had far more positive comments about TWAT than negative. Perhaps most see it's aptness.
As the full post says, the US is far and away the thirstiest nation on Earth for oil, with a tiny fraction of the reserves under it's soil. The Middle East consumes far less, but owns over half the reserves. As this resource runs out, the thirstiest, now most agressive nation, is going to do anything it can to secure supplies.
So don't tell me it's pure coincidence that the biggest foreign contingents of US troops are in the Middle East. Anyone who seriously believes that is seriously deluded, whether they be Left, Right, or Outta Sight.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on October 2, 2003 at 9:04 AM
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I take your point, DL...
...but take issue with your underlying characterization, and especially your use of the term "TWAT." Spin is spin, no matter how you cloak it. Legitimate debate cannot take place when one side continuously interjects spin into the conversation. State your point of view without loaded acronyms, and you are much more likely to be taken seriously.
I am well aware of the continuing attempts by the Left to interject OIL as the underlying reason for nearly everything the U.S. does on the international stage. This is pure hyperbole, spin of the highest order. If you are part of the Leftist Elite, then shame on you for deliberately attempting to dupe the folks. If you are just one of the folks, then I caution you to reexamine your premises, because you are being had by some very sophisticated people who DO NOT have your best interests in mind.
(BTW, please supply a link to the report you cite, and I will comment on it.)
posted by
arGee
on October 2, 2003 at 8:42 AM
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Here is An Excerpt...
...from my post in STOP THE WARS yesterday, on the central role of oil in The War Against Terror (TWAT)...
"Sadly, we are probably at the beginning of this chaos, not the end. For example, which nation has been a recent focus of the American-led TWAT? Iran. And what is the shortest pipeline route to bring oil out of the land-locked Caspian Basin? Exactly - through Iran and out to the Persian Gulf. Currently, the US has legislation in place preventing any oil company (American or foreign, which is a bit cheeky) developing Iranian oil fields. The US will not support such a pipeline unless there's a regime change in Iran. And, by pure coincidence, Bush is pushing for just such a change under the guise of his phony TWAT.
"You want to question this? Feel free. But before the likes of Uncle Dan and other mad Bushites get on their high horses, go read the May 2002 report released by the US Office of the Co-Ordinator for Counterterrorism. In there, the US government EXPLICITLY says that the protection of oil pipelines is the prime reason why TWAT is being waged.
"The Prime Reason."
Nothing more to add, really.
Except that a terrorist has, as his primary motivation, the wish to spread terror. Beware you don't become that which you despise.
D
posted by
DamonLeigh
on October 2, 2003 at 8:29 AM
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