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Foliage
Don't forget, Mohammed lived 600 years after Jesus!
posted by
Nautikos
on April 29, 2007 at 2:35 PM
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Foliage
He didn't 'know' any more than you or I, but what's preventing him from making things up? I mean the whole business about the Koran being the word of God is made up!
posted by
Nautikos
on April 29, 2007 at 2:33 PM
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Naut: Part IV
Yes, about crucifixions; I'd heard this theory about it not being Jesus. Okay, I'm mixed up here. Mohammed wasn't alive when Jesus was, so how could he know? --Joy!Mary
posted by
FoliageGold
on April 29, 2007 at 2:20 PM
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Foliage
As you probably know, crucifixions were a common form of punishment in those days. And it isn't difficult to suggest that someone else was substituted for Jesus. That's exactly what Mohammed says! You see, for him to succeed, he
has to deny the accuracy of the NT scenario...
posted by
Nautikos
on April 29, 2007 at 6:21 AM
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Naut
This is very well-written. Thanks for explaining the narrators "I" and "We", otherwise I'd be utterly confused. I see what you're saying here and no wonder there was such a ruckous. Okay, so I see Mohammed denounces that Jesus was the son of God. But I cannot understand where the notion came about that Jesus wasn't crucified? --Mary
posted by
FoliageGold
on April 28, 2007 at 7:34 AM
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Bhaskar
thanks!
posted by
Nautikos
on March 21, 2007 at 4:55 PM
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NautiKos
Great job. Do carry on.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on March 14, 2007 at 5:20 AM
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Nautikos
I am off a considerable length of time. Thank you for letting me know that.
posted by
Justi
on March 12, 2007 at 6:33 PM
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Justi
Thanks for the extensive comment.
Of course Mohammed didn't hear God. But then, my position is that neither did Moses or anyone else. I am just concerned with the effect their claims and teachings have had and continue to have. Incidentally, Mohammed was born ca. 570 A.D., and died 632 A.D.
posted by
Nautikos
on March 12, 2007 at 5:26 PM
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Nautikos
Moses was a prophet just as were the Major and Minor Prophets. God spoke through those others the same way He did Moses. After Christ was crucified, buried, rose from the dead and ascended there was a total change in the role of religion a new covenant was given. The Holy Spirit abides on earth, the spirit of Him in each believer. We hear from God but not in verbal messages, and never any message from God that does not line up with what has been inspired and written in the Holy Bible. No one has or will be inspired by God to write another letter or word to the Bible. It was 1,100 years after Jesus was born that Mohammad decided to write another Old Testament Religion.
This man today would be in deep therapy; he was hearing voices. At one time he thought himself to be crazy, then claimed it was God. It is not at all unusual to find patients in institutions 'hearing from God'. A good secular source of information is the writing of Josephus. He was an historian of the day. The birth, the methods, many things no one could have make happen was prophesied by God to the prophets in the Old Testament and some 300 of those were fulfilled by the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus.
There are Messianic Jews who have become Christians enriching the Christian faith in believers. There is never force on the part of Jesus to coerce anyone to become a believer. Believers should never do that either. We are to only tell others the story and it is up to them to believe or not totally a choice. One cannot come to Christi as a believer until the Holy Spirit has convicted them of another way. They then have the choice to reject it.
posted by
Justi
on March 12, 2007 at 5:03 PM
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Justi
Thanks for correcting me. I had been under the impression it was a generally accepted part of the belief that the last time God spoke Himself was to Moses on Mt. Sinai, and later only through prophets; I wasn't aware that some people believe differently. In any case, my main point was that Mohammed claims he received most of the Koran directly from God.
Of course, to an agnostic the entire issue is completely academic. My interest is only in trying to understand the practical consequences resulting from any such claims, i.e. what happens if and when people believe them.
posted by
Nautikos
on March 12, 2007 at 11:30 AM
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Pat B
Thanks. And you are absolutely right, I am definitely learning things!
posted by
Nautikos
on March 12, 2007 at 11:27 AM
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This continues to be interesting, useful and thought-provoking.
You must be learning a lot as you put it into this form. Organizing the ideas. Thanks again!
posted by
Pat_B
on March 12, 2007 at 11:18 AM
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Offy
posted by
Nautikos
on March 12, 2007 at 10:54 AM
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Bhaskar
Again, I have to tell you that I know absolutely nothing about Allah. Or God. I only know what Mohammed
claims to have heard from Allah (a claim I do not accept), and what he
tells me about Allah, and that doesn't sound very compassionate to me.
posted by
Nautikos
on March 12, 2007 at 10:53 AM
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Nautikos
The Koran took the account of Genesis 4,000 years after the fact and transfered the accounts. Changing out the sons. This is a Satanically perverted copy of the accounts of the Bible done in the 12th century of an account previously written 3,000 before Mohamad got to it.
posted by
Justi
on March 12, 2007 at 7:02 AM
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Nautikos
God did not fall silent after his encounter with Moses. There was only one account of silence on God's part. The 400 years immediately preceeding the birth of Christ.
posted by
Justi
on March 12, 2007 at 6:57 AM
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posted by
Offy
on March 12, 2007 at 6:49 AM
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Nautikos
In my comment on your previous write, it was exactly this Allah, the Compassionate one, I was referring to. The people of the vast boundless desert lived by plunder and thought nothing of looting and murder, and Mohammed had to teach them the virtue of compasion. It was a perfect lesson for the time and the people Mohammed was dealing with. But this very teaching also had its negative fall out in the later ages. Your presentation is good and I am following to pick up substance from it, that may have a universal appeal, because though Koran is wonderful, I have not found it free from certain parochialisms in the thoughts therein.
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on March 11, 2007 at 10:41 PM
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Enigmatic
thanks. There'll be a few more...
posted by
Nautikos
on March 11, 2007 at 8:22 PM
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Wiley
OTA is astute!
posted by
Nautikos
on March 11, 2007 at 8:21 PM
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TAPS
thanks!
posted by
Nautikos
on March 11, 2007 at 8:20 PM
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OTA
From his point of view, I think it was the only way to approach it...
posted by
Nautikos
on March 11, 2007 at 8:20 PM
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Nautikos
Keep it coming! 
posted by
Enigmatic68
on March 11, 2007 at 3:12 PM
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OneTimeAgain
I'm still hooked with your writing but I rather like the comment of OneTimeAgain, lol.
posted by
WileyJohn
on March 11, 2007 at 2:06 PM
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Nautikos
Very interesting.
posted by
TAPS.
on March 11, 2007 at 10:59 AM
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I wondered how he got around the divinity of Christ... that makes sense.. if you say it aint so.. it aint so.
posted by
Blue_feathers
on March 11, 2007 at 10:46 AM
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