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Blanche
Sadly, the Christian churches in Germany throughout history were at the forefront of a virulent form of anti-Semitism, and were complict in genocide. Such people as Pastor Niemoller were rare in their condemnation of the Shoah.
We are sure that we would never take an active part in such mass murder, but one must always ask " What would I have done?" " Would I have spoken out, and let my family face the consequences?
Niemoller said " First they came for the Communists, but I wasn't a Communist, so I didn't speak out. Then they came for the Socialists, but I wasn't a Socialist, so I did nothing. Then they came for the Jews, but I'm not a Jew, so I did nothing. When they came for me, there was nobody left to speak out"
posted by
ariel70
on October 19, 2006 at 2:53 AM
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Nautikos
Thanks for calling in.
While the Shoah is incomprehensible on one level, it is easy to grasp on another. Given the presence of, for example, the British Union of Fascists in 1930s Britain ; the KKK in the US, and the rioters in Watts. N.O. and elsewhere, one cannot imagine that it would be difficult to find people to kick Jews/blacks/Christians et al to death. Nothing changes.
posted by
ariel70
on October 19, 2006 at 2:46 AM
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Saul again
Martin of course, not matin
posted by
ariel70
on October 19, 2006 at 2:42 AM
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Saul
Have you read matin Gilbert's " The Holocaust", and Daniel Joseph Goldhagen's " Hitler's Willing Executioners"?
They should be required reading for everyone, especially now that we in the west are threatened by a new form of racist attempts at world-wide hegemony.
posted by
ariel70
on October 19, 2006 at 2:41 AM
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What a wrenching poem, ariel. I am a student of WWII, having written
several college papers on Rommel and the SS, etc., and find the subject a fascinating sojourn into the darkest recesses of the human experience. Your post is illuminating in that many forget that cruelty/sadism is and was not nor never was gender specific. We, everyone, must never forget the Shoah of Europe's Jews, nor the other 'impure' races that were sent to the camps in such large numbers. I commend you, friend, for your moving poem. Shalom.
posted by
saul_relative
on October 17, 2006 at 9:34 PM
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ariel,
your post led me to reflect on things I have thought, at times written, though not for a while, but also on a few very personal experiences, some of which may find their way into a post.
Let me just say one thing: I share your view that a comprehensive answer to the 'why' of the Shoah will be forever beyond our grasp, since it is beyond 'reason'. Hannah Arendt's insight that, when inspected closely, evil appears as banality was of course meant in reference to Eichmann. 'There was nothing there, there' , to paraphrase Gertrude Stein. But it applies generally.
The 'best' we seem to be able to do is focus on the 'epiphenomenal' - that which speaks to the emotions, our sense of revulsion and our compassion. And that will be forever the blood-curdling brutality...
posted by
Nautikos
on October 17, 2006 at 9:11 AM
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A thought provoking poem.
posted by
afzal50
on October 16, 2006 at 9:30 AM
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Ariel, What can I say except that you said it well. To be reminded, again, of such horror is horrible. And, yet I would have it no other way. I don't want us to ever forget.
posted by
TAPS.
on October 15, 2006 at 6:09 PM
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Ariel, many condemn the church for acts of atrociities against humanity,
In the name of Hitler and God, these things were done, wtich hunts, burnings and tortures by the Church for centuries, hunting for heretics, and so many intellectuals condemn and deny Christianity because how can any just and loving God allow these things to be done in His name?
I firmly believe that there will be a reckoning for such as these, who acted in the most heinous and sadistic ways, and that God does not stop anyone from doing anything, but awaits the final outcome, His heart breaks for us all, and bleeds everytime these unspeakable acts are perpetuated, but we do have free will, and therin lies the true test of character.
Who would remain silent and allow these things to be done, is another question. May God have mercy on us all.
posted by
Blanche.
on October 15, 2006 at 4:37 PM
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Les we forget I say never
Such a sad but true story of unnecessary death
posted by
Kat02
on October 15, 2006 at 2:33 PM
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Passion
Thank you for your comment.
One wonders how much more advanced in all scientific, technological and social fields we would be now had all those brilliant minds survived.
On the other hand, horrible as it is to even think it, had they not been persecuted by the nazis, patriotic German Jews would no doubt have helped Hitler along the road to nuclear supremacy.
Now there's a thought for you ; that out of unspeakable evil come good.
posted by
ariel70
on October 15, 2006 at 12:08 PM
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Tonyzonit
Thank you for your thoughtful comment.
I think that the most shocking aspect of Hitlerite, or any other political and religious murder is the way that it rapidly become commonplace.
I am sure that future historians will point to the Nazi era as some sort of highly significant watershed, for it was then that the unthinkable became thinkable ; the thinkable became doable, and the doable was done. This is what the Jewish historian ( herself a camp survivor ) called " The banality of evil."
Since then of course, there has been a calamtious loosening of social and personal mores.
posted by
ariel70
on October 15, 2006 at 12:04 PM
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Man has a great potential for either good or evil.
Those were definitely dark days for all of mankind but esp the Jews. I'm thankful they survived.
posted by
Passionflower
on October 15, 2006 at 12:02 PM
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Hi there
I liked especially the stanza towards the end, which tries to imagine what it would be like to be facing death - horrible, but necessary to imagine in order to appreciate the ghastliness of such events. As for why it was done, well the Nazi regime promoted and rewarded the basest possible behaviour and the most pitiless aspects of humanity, especially towards the races deemed inferior. There will always, in any country, be people willing to carry out such deeds, given the chance, which fortunately only happens rarely in the case of a Hitler as a European leader. Don't forget, though, the other parts of the world which still endure terrible leadership and sponsor violence. The mass executions in China are an example of something happening now, rather than in history books. Nice work, though, and good to have these serious subjects cropping up from time to time.
posted by
Antonionioni
on October 15, 2006 at 11:45 AM
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