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Great post!
posted by
shypettite
on September 28, 2006 at 6:13 PM
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Avante_garde
How very moving, and how very poetic!
Lady Ariela was once a market research supervisor, and in the course of her work she met many people like the man that you quote. Ordinary old people ( mostly men ) who had performed the most incredible, selfless acts of courage and self-sacrifice.
And all without any recognition, while bureaucrats received honours simply for doing their jobs. ( We lived in Britain then of course. )
I have always been outraged that ignorant spoilt brats, totally without a sense of honour treated those men, returning Vietnam veterans, as pariahs. It was utterly disgusting, and I greatly fear that men returning from Iraq will receive the same treatment. They too will be equated with Nazi stormtroopers by those who should know better.
A lovely post ; thank you.
el Tel
posted by
ariel70
on September 27, 2006 at 3:37 PM
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Tanga
He was a remarkable person.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 27, 2006 at 12:54 PM
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Great post
I am glad you shared some of his story with us
posted by
Tanga
on September 27, 2006 at 6:00 AM
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Blanche
I think the kidding and mockery are a way of us anesthetizing ourselves. We don't have to think of others at all if we judge them.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 4:25 PM
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It is why I am more than a little touchy and reactive to mockery of the
mentally ill, Avant Garde. It's like that old Indian proverb, that goes somethiing like, "Until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes, you have no idea where they've been." Some people have had horrific trauma, and seen horrors the average jperson wouldn't understand. I haven't personally, but I feel for Vietnam vets and vets in general. They didn't get much empathy when they came home. In fact, most were just kids when tehy were sent into a hellish environment, brainwashed with ra-ra propaganda and had thier innocence and humanity stripped away.
For someone to make fun of that, to mock someone on the street, because they're dirty and unwashed, maybe strung out on the drug they use to anesthetize themselves against memories, to me is unconscionable and says volumes about the lack of empathy of that person.
I am using my own experiences blogging, writing and journaling to incorporate them into something that hardly exists: writing therapy, journal or poetry therapy. I'm having to feel my way, but I feel it is my calling in life.
posted by
Blanche.
on September 26, 2006 at 4:02 PM
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Blanche
I'm sure we can't even begin to understand the horrors these people witnesssed.
As for the medical profession, I feel a great sadness at the underlying motives for many to take part. I see the injustices of those who really need care and the egregious abuse of what good is trying to be done. I'm not sure what the answers are, but listening from the heart and doing what feels right certainly seems to be a step in the right direction.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 3:57 PM
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Pardon me for the long dealy in responding, Avant Garde,
I just saw your response. My own experiences have convinced me that there is a real need in the mental health field for listening and empathy, that the awe and reverence that many have for higher education sometimes blinds to the disconnect between intellect and heart.
In my observation, I feel worse for doctors or other professionals whose hearts are disconnected from their minds, the disconnect that breeds neurosis, in general, imho, than for those of us who are trying to heal. Peter Breggin, a psychiatrist who has written several books critical of his own profession, including one called "Toxic Psychiatry" put it best, I think, when he wrote, "All of life is an alternative to therapy." It's in living, becoming connected to life, and being open to learning lessons, which I hope I am, that healing happens.
I have been so sad to see Vietnam vets on the streets, as well. No one knows what's really going on in their minds, if they're still locked in a hell of memory, that they can't break out of, not even knowing what date or time it is in the real world. Poor tortured souls.
posted by
Blanche.
on September 26, 2006 at 3:24 PM
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TAPS
I have picked up some very tattered souls off the street. Many were vets. I'd be honored for you to read anything I've written.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 3:13 PM
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avant-garde, One of the things that haunts me from my work as a nurse in long term care is what happened to certain Vietnam Vets after their contracts ran out and they had to go back out on the streets where they had been before they suffered frost bite, injury and attack from other homeless. They also had stories to tell but few who cared to listen. I would love to read your book when it is written.
posted by
TAPS.
on September 26, 2006 at 1:21 PM
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Blanche
I went to one, in order to get an anti-depressant. I spent an hour listening to his crowing, and found out that he was against giving me anything! I was referred to him by a psychologist. He waived the fee and told me to look elsewhere. I got my M.D. to do it.
I wondered from that point if the profession breeds its own neurosis.
I dated a girl awhile back whose uncle was a psychiatrist. He was chronically depressed and an alcoholic. I wasn't impressed by him at all.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 12:33 PM
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Mystic
BTW, thanks for reading. I wanted to relate his story. It was very impressive to me.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 12:30 PM
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Mystic
Oh, my God! Talking about crossing the lines of professionalism. I bet that colored every image you had of authority from then forward.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 12:29 PM
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Avant-Garde, I've pretty much lost any awe or intimidation I've had of MDs.
I've got the same impression, that many of the people who becomes psychiatrists, or counselors, may be trying to heal themselves, and have fewer people skills than your average person. Not all, though.
posted by
Blanche.
on September 26, 2006 at 11:54 AM
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I saw my first psychiatrist
when i was 14. He gave me some
meaningful human interaction ...he fucked me. Kind of colored my opinion of the profession. I learned young that they could be manipulated by the budding breasts of a teenage child. Of course it was not helpful to hold the more powerful hand.
posted by
MysticGmekeepr
on September 26, 2006 at 11:50 AM
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avant
a very meaningful exchange. the smallest things, like a listening ear mean so much .....someone to tell their tale too. everyone has a story
posted by
MysticGmekeepr
on September 26, 2006 at 11:44 AM
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Julia
It's always someone new, among the regulars.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 11:33 AM
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Blanche
I'm starting to get that feeling about shrinks. I don't know a one who is not screwed up in one way or another. My brother told me that in med school, when the pressure got to be too much, many went into psychiatry to try and get a hold on reality again.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 11:32 AM
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Dave
Indeed. A
very different world.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 11:31 AM
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Bhaskar
Thanks. Have a great Tuesday!
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 11:30 AM
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sannhet
Thank you. I would like to hear some things, but I must get my mind around pushing to get published again. I've been kicking around how to go about doing a book about this work.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 11:30 AM
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Talion
You're so right. It's a shame that we don't listen to the elderly more, and stop wondering about the absurdities.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 11:29 AM
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Cosy
Thank you so much. You're very sweet. How are you today?
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 11:28 AM
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Mari-am
Thank you, my friend.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 11:28 AM
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SYMPHONY
The man was very interesting, to say the least. I am still remembering things he told me, even after writing this. He was very down to earth.
posted by
avant-garde
on September 26, 2006 at 11:27 AM
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avant--
what a great, interesting story. I imagine in your line of work, you get one of these pretty much every day?
posted by
Julia.
on September 26, 2006 at 10:21 AM
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Avant-Garde, I would never presume to tell someone else how to heal.
Your partner has been through a lot of things that most civilians could barely imagine, let alone empathize with. One thing I have learned is, that telling one's story is vital to the healing process, but telling it when and where and how they are ready to do so, to an understanding, supportive audience.
You probably did him a lot of good, just by listening. I can totally understand why he didn't get much benefit from six months of therapy with a psycniatrist. Truthfully, I've found that some have less understanding and empathy than your average person. They're useful, as MDs, but their understanding of the human heart, pain, anguish and experience has, in my experience, been limited to writing a prescription for pills, and pills, as necessary as they may be, are a poor subsitute for real human interaction and wisdom.
You have a lot to say that would make interesting reading, I hope you are working on that book.
posted by
Blanche.
on September 26, 2006 at 10:08 AM
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Snapshot of a different world.
posted by
_dave_says_ack_
on September 26, 2006 at 9:49 AM
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Avant
Such experiences of life as these are a book unto themselves. Keep writing books, my friend. Very well done!
posted by
Bhaskar.ing
on September 26, 2006 at 8:31 AM
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Avant -
A beautiful story. And a great lead in for a book. Go for it! I've learned quite a bit from the publishing side of things if you are ever interested.
posted by
sannhet
on September 26, 2006 at 8:17 AM
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avant-garde
There are countless people with interesting lives and stories that should be shared and remembered, but instead we get who's sleeping with who and other inane celebrity gossip. One of these days, this society is going to get its priorities straight. I'm not holding my breath, though.
posted by
Talion
on September 26, 2006 at 6:58 AM
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avante
you are a great friend
goodmorning love
posted by
cosy
on September 26, 2006 at 6:21 AM
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Avant
good story thanks
posted by
Rosetree
on September 26, 2006 at 5:35 AM
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Wow, Thanks for sharing...
I guess when we pass people in the street, or like you go to the vets, you see them as you 'judge' them, but it's only when they tell you things about themself...you see them in a different light...that has always interested me....just wish I could explain it better, than I just did.
posted by
_Symphony_
on September 26, 2006 at 5:04 AM
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