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Yes Janes, hoards refers to when something is kept or
accummulated - ie keeping stuff, hoarding of junk etc and hordes refers to a vast number of people. I thought you were talking about a horde - ie the large number.
Re the 25%, I was only curious as it seemed high.
I am more cautious than most about running stats without sources because of my journalistic training.
posted by
Azur
on August 9, 2006 at 10:18 PM
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Janes
I am ready for some FREEDOM FRIES!!
posted by
Offy
on August 8, 2006 at 5:15 PM
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Oh and Azur, regarding "hordes" vs "hoards" --
I googled it and saw it both ways; however, "hoards" refers to an accumulation of things or people.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 8, 2006 at 5:09 PM
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Azur, regarding the numbers of Muslims, I fear I cannot give you the source
Several months ago, when I was doing some research for a blogit article, I looked up the stats and found these from a couple of different news media type articles. . . which I no longer have. You may be correct on your numbers, and if so I stand corrected!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 8, 2006 at 5:06 PM
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azur, thanks for the spell check. I looked it up the first time I posted
found it to be both ways . . . . But Hordes does perhaps look "more better." Thanks!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 8, 2006 at 5:00 PM
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I think you might mean to say hordes
I was surprised by the stat of 25% Muslims and went away and did some research. Could you say where the stat came from? All of the sources that I saw list France as having between 3% and 11% of Muslims
posted by
Azur
on August 8, 2006 at 2:17 PM
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Janes
When you look at the history of Europe you realize that they had had centuries of being taught submission....by one hoard or another......it's now ingrained in their genes.......next phase is Eurabia.....
posted by
Corbin_Dallas
on August 8, 2006 at 6:00 AM
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Jane-
I'm sitting here chuckling about George Bush and how he'll be remembered in history. A pacifist no -- (and this may be to our advantage), a loose canon, yes, especially compared to his "daddy."
Cee
posted by
LadyCeeMarie
on August 7, 2006 at 11:55 PM
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TAPS, someday we need to sit down and have a nice chat.
If not now, then for sure in heaven!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 7, 2006 at 6:56 PM
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JanesOpinion, I like a strong woman who is not afraid to voice her opinions. My mother was one of those. Even up into her 80's she kept up on the world and politics and always knew who to vote for and why. In some ways I am like her but in other ways not. LOL
posted by
TAPS.
on August 7, 2006 at 6:19 PM
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Ceemarie, I appreciate your thoughtful comments!
I believe that love can, indeed, cover and repair a multitude of sins. I also agree with you that by getting to know our neighbors, we can have a positive impact on their lives. I happen to have some Muslim neighbors who live down the road around the corner. I have been pondering how to reach out to them. Perhaps a picnic lunch with BLT sandwiches??? (Just kidding!)
At the same time, when it comes to dealing with bullies (such as terrorists), we need to be firm. Pacifism usually doesn't work in the presence of bullies (consider Britain's PM Chamberlain kow towing to Hitler during WW2). Pres Bush, for all his faults and possible failures (obviously depends on who you ask) will not be known as a coward, if you ask me. He went to war with the terrorists on their soil (particularly Afghanistan), so as to decrease the risk of further terrorism on American soil. He has definitely NOT been a pacifist president, and with good reason.
As always, Ceemarie, thanks for your comments. I hope today has been a good day for you, particularly regarding your physical concerns????
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 7, 2006 at 4:58 PM
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LeRoy, I agree.
Israelis have made something of this tiny country of theirs. They have developed extraordinary industry. They have been creative and hard working . . . and in a short period of time have way surpassed anything the Islamic nations have developed -- in spite of trillions of oil dollars. They're a fruitful democratic country stuck in the midst of oil rich dictator desert barons.
Thanks for commenting!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 7, 2006 at 4:50 PM
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TAPS, my dear, I have sensed you lurking in the shadows ~~
I found your comment grand! Thank you for commenting. I know I come across so often with such strong and frequently overwhelming views. And for that matter, I am not always kind in my comments. People must assume (I know you don't, since you know me a little bit better than some) that I am a strong willed and perhaps at times obnoxious female. In real life, I am rather shy . . . .
I obviously have very strong convictions. I am a master at making generalizations (which frequently gets me in trouble). But face to face with those people with whom I have massive social and religious differences, I become kind and loving no matter how much I might disagree with them. Right around bedtime, I was pondering how I come across in my blogs and comments, and asking myself -- how would Jesus respond to what I have written? Not sure, not sure I want to know . . . but realize it's a question I need to think about some more.
Fascinating the varying facets one can find in a human, eh?
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 7, 2006 at 4:47 PM
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Great Post!
Janes, I listen to Dennis P. also and he is great. He's a calm voice a lot like yours, even on heart-attack serious subjects like this. As for why they hate Jews, it's in their prophecies, stuff about Jews hiding behind trees and the trees calling out, "Here's a Jew, come and kill him!" But also it's a recent thing. The civilization Israel has worked to build up in that part of the world is considered alien because it is successful. They called it "relative depravation" in sociology class. The conflict, I think, is heating up because there is a race to destroy Israel between the Sunis and the Shias. The winner will have real world benefits we could not even believe, not just otherworldly benefits, in their minds. One group of Muslims that are on the increase in Iran are the Sufis and they are a very different sort of Muslim and would not be prone to murder, etc. of the Islamo-fascists.
posted by
LeRoyCoyote
on August 6, 2006 at 10:28 PM
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Jane-
There is power in numbers; demographically, what you describe as a future Muslim world is quite believable. I can only speak from my personal experience when it comes to hating one particular race or maybe several races (anyone who isn't like "you"). there is a song from
South Pacific, "You've Got to Be Carefully Taught," 'to hate and fear, it's got to be drummed in your dear little ear. ..... to hate all the people your relatives hate, you've got to be carefully taught. ' I think that's much of the reason.
Recently I was in Boston and my sister invited two of her best friends over to eat with us. One is a survivor from Auschwitz (Betty), the other a Muslim from Pakistan (Katija). For dessert we watched a DVD of Katija's only daughter's wedding in Beirut last December. She is beautiful and intelligent (I have met her) and she married an American Muslim from Michigan. Katija broke the bank to do her part in making it an unforgettable day in her daughter's life, just as mother's do. She's a nurse, not an oil mogul.
Here's my point: We need to break down the numbers, and learn to know our neighbors and their beliefs. I live in Kansas. Not one person
I know believes in creationism over evolution. In fact, a couple of the proponents just got voted OFF the state BOA.
I also live in a fort town that invites people from over 100 different countries to train military officers in the Command and General Staff College. We sponsored families for a while when I was healthier. If each of us would react from the viewpoint of love and not fear, we could put an end to hate. We need to take time to get to know each other face to face and not rely on the opinions of others telling us what to feel, how to believe, how to vote, and so on. We have plenty of homegrown terrorist factions right here in own country, lest we not forget what happened in Oklahoma City.
You can undo hatred. It takes guts and fortitude to use your own brain to do so, but I still believe Love can and will always triumph over Fear in the end, even if it takes force to do so.
So says God. That's our most reliable source of information; the Great I Am.
Cee
posted by
LadyCeeMarie
on August 6, 2006 at 10:11 PM
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JanesOpinion, I am totally fascinated by your blogs on the subjects that I don't usually even comment on. I don't feel comfortable about writing or commenting on politics and world affairs even though I am very interested. You are so outgoing and outspoken about your views and I have total respect for you. But, you would never know it because I sit back in the shadows and you don't even know I'm there. I would like to say here, though, that I know muslims and have worked with many that do not express hatred toward Jews or anyone else. If they have those feelings, it is not evident when I am around them.
posted by
TAPS.
on August 6, 2006 at 8:04 PM
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Offbeats, I'm game!!!!
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 6, 2006 at 7:20 PM
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FLIGHTPATH, you make a valid point, I think!
I do lump them all together. I fear that many and perhaps even a majority are becoming more militaristic in their outlook thanks to the teachings they undergo at the mosques and madrassahs (sp?). So it may not be the fault of the individual Muslim, but it would seem that the leaders, on average, advocate violence and hate over peace and a desire to work with and better understand the adversary.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 6, 2006 at 7:20 PM
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Janes
I could not agree with you more! It was a blow, I thought what the hell are these people thinking? Do they not have a good memory? We should still call them Freedom Fries! I will if you will!!
posted by
Offy
on August 6, 2006 at 6:45 PM
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Janes, it is unfair to put all Muslims in one basket. Those causing today's problems are fanatics...many of them young, misled, and trained or driven to kill, by radical leaders with agendas of their own.
posted by
reasons
on August 6, 2006 at 6:45 PM
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Offbeats, I was bummed to hear that Freedom fries in the Capital cafe
have been changed back to French fries. It's a small thing but still. I prefer Freedom fries, how bout you?
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 6, 2006 at 6:32 PM
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Janes
I too like Tony Blair. I don't know much about the new president of Germany. Time will tell I suppose. They have left a bad taste in my mouth when they would not support UN ref#441. I still do not buy anything from or made in France, the true gutless wonder of Europe!
posted by
Offy
on August 6, 2006 at 6:21 PM
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Kingmi -- "animal instinct" -- for sure that seems to be what we are seeing
Hezzbolah acting like animals minus logic and reason.
Thanks for stopping in, one and all.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 6, 2006 at 6:17 PM
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I should add, Offbeats, that from what I have read,
Germany has been pretty decent, too, which is appropriate considering its past history. I think I also like their new President, Angela Merkel (sp??).
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 6, 2006 at 6:16 PM
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Offbeats, I'm not all that surprised at Europe, only sad.
As well, I am thankful that Britain has shown such strength. Their PM, Tony Blair, is to be commended. I like the guy! I like his character and fortitude. He has had a lot of adversity even within Great Britain and yet has stayed the course.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 6, 2006 at 6:15 PM
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WritersBlok, they would do this just for the propaganda?
Why? Explain yourself please. That doesn't seem deep seated and enduring enough to explain the fierce hatred and animosity of the last few centuries.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 6, 2006 at 6:14 PM
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JanesO, what we learn from ancient civilizations is that once reason and
logic are stripped away, the only thing that remains is group survival and animal instinct.
posted by
kingmi
on August 6, 2006 at 5:56 PM
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Janes
I have no idea why they hate the Israelis. Understanding I am not counting the long distant past of these two, we all know there is a long history there. For today's society to believe we could live in harmony with Hezzbolah, or that Hezzbola is a legitimate body is greatly deceiving one self...They must be destroyed. Are you really surprised at Europe? It seems the fight went out of them way back when...Of those little nations I would say England has had the best response to terrorists. Quite frankly I hope Israel blows them(Hezzbolah) off the map and I also believe they are doing a fine job thus far! God forbid they drop a big one....Israel is not a nation to mess with. They have a highly skilled military who are committed to their country, committed to freedom...God Bless them!
posted by
Offy
on August 6, 2006 at 5:51 PM
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Why do muslims have an animosity against
Christians, Jews, Hindus and just about anybody else? I have two words for you: Political Propaganda!
posted by
WritersBlok
on August 6, 2006 at 5:48 PM
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And the thing of it is, ariel70, that bullies and terrorists have no
respect for cowards and impotent leaders. I realize it's too simplistic to say that America has not been attacked in part because Bush has fought back and taken the war to them; however, there is something to be said for a very strong response to terrorism.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 6, 2006 at 12:56 PM
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Jane's
The nauseating cringing and crawling to murderous dictators in the Balkans in the 1990s made me deeply ashamed to be British, for our then Foreign Secretary, Douglas Hurd was the most abject specimen of them all. And my sentiments were shared by many British people.
After years of standing by totally impotent, while people by the hundred thousand were being butchered, they squealed about excessive force when the US moved in and put an end to it all.
And the tragedy of it all is that Britian had, and probably still has, the finest army in the world ; highly trained, highly motivated, and very experienced in policing troubled areas.
posted by
ariel70
on August 6, 2006 at 12:27 PM
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ariel70, I think you're right!
(JanesO here, not Justi, although we agree on quite a lot of things!)
The UN and the EU have become paper tigers, for sure.
posted by
JanesOpinion
on August 6, 2006 at 12:20 PM
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Justi
Never, every be surprised at what that terminally stupid and inept, stupefyingly corrupt and flaccid body, the EU ever do. These guys can't even pay for their own defence, but rely upon the US that they're always slagging off.
They are a sick, dictatorial bunch of bean crunchers, who don't know their ***** from their elbows. World opinion, be damned! World opinion is the mouthings of whoever's popular at the moment in the media, uttered to further their own careers.
posted by
ariel70
on August 6, 2006 at 12:12 PM
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